National New Yorker 7 String - Needs Work - NGD!

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

I just got a 1936/37 National New Yorker 7 string with an original case. Scale length is 23". It needs work. Normal for an 88 year old guitar Smile

. My plan is to make it a RELIABLE player.

Serial number is B 1257.

Took a while to strip it down. The fret board does NOT split at the 12th fret. I had to remove the whole plastic fretboard to get at the internals. I used a steel putty knife and was able to work it loose. Can't use heat as it is plastic. It was glued on with rubber cement.

The first issue was the microphone jack. It was loose and would rotate so I thought I could tighten it up. No such luck. The locking nut sleeve was seized up and I had to drill it out and then cut it off. I ordered a Switchcraft long jack socket that will fit in the existing hole.

Someone had lined the inside of the guitar with tin foil and did a poor job. I removed it all and will re-line the cavities with copper foil.

Most of the wire was old with plastic insulation that was crumbling. I will rewire with 22g cloth-covered wire. I traced the wiring and did a quick drawing:

There was one wire that was not connected to anything. I've called it a mystery wire as I am not sure where it should go. It is attached to the hidden pickup (neck) metal frame. If I connect it to ground it will cut out two coils like a coil split switch. Anyone know where it goes?

I removed all the old wire and measured the parts.

The bridge pickup measures 9.85k. The neck pickup measures 12.2k.

The caps were in better shape than I expected:

0.02 µF marked, measured 0.023 µF

0.05 µF marked, measured 0.041 µF

The Allen-Bradley pots measured:

562k, 611k, 586k, and 553k. 600K pots? They are marked "EA-1539". They are type J rated at 500v. I don't think the guitar is that hot Smile

The tuners are loose and sloppy. One has been repaired.

I will replace them with Grover STA-TITE 97V

https://grotro.com/product/sta-tite-97-18-series/

I sent Grover an email asking how I get a set of 7 as they come in sets of 6 Rolling Eyes

.

The nut is is very bad shape. I will replace it with a new bone one.

It was put in backwards - left handed player?

I *think* I will be tuning it to a G6 - GBDEGBD .
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8

Dennis Belt · From: California, USA

That guitar went to the right owner. That’s going to be one sweet steel when you finish with it. Kudos to you for taking the time to fix it right.
Looking forward to your updates.

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

Those are really cool instruments. Should be fun restoration project. I’m looking forward to seeing the results.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)

https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database

Mike Auman · From: North Texas, USA

Re: pot values - most pots have a 20% manufacturing tolerance, so a 500k pot can be anywhere from 400k to 600k and still be in spec. So I think 500k would be the choice for replacements. If you measure the resistance at the halfway point (set at 12:00 noon) you can tell the pot tapers. Linear (B) taper would read 50% of full value, while audio (A) taper would read 10% to 20% of full value. All readings best made out of the circuit.
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Long-time guitar player, now wrestling with lap steel.

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

I used to have one of those.
It seemed un-molested, but the bass pickup were not working. It also had aluminum foil inside - I'm pretty sure it was from the factory.
Below is an accurate schematic. Very interesting circuit.
The treble strings from 2 pickups go to a pot, and the bass strings to another pot. Nobody does that any more!!
The pots were actually 200K and I am sure they were original.

_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

The pots seem fine and I believe that they are original as are the caps.

Eric,

It's a strange circuit for sure. Mine does not have the hidden pickups connected to the bridge pickup.

Your circuit has the hidden neck coils wired in parallel and mine are all wired in series. Maybe because mine is a 7 string?
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Tony,
I'm pretty sure that your "black mystery wire" was originally Ground. Then it would pretty much match the circuit in mine. Except there seems to be one extra wire there, that I'm guessing is not original.
The only connection between the bridge pickups and the others is Ground.
For clarity I've highlighted Ground in black, the Treble Hots in yellow and the Bass Hots in blue. Hope that makes better sense.

_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

Erick,

What you say does make sense except that the middle pair of hidden coils are not connected, making all 4 hidden coils connected in series. I will double check to make sure I didn't miss a wire.

I may wire it with a master vol & master tone and the hidden coils as two blended pickups similar to a Stringmaster.

Thanks!
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

G6 tuning is what I will use on this lap steel. It's the same as the G6 on my 1939ish 6 string Supro (23" scale as well) but has an added high D.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=396875&highlight=

Now I can get the nut made knowing the string sizes.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

I was able to get a 6 set of Grover V97-18 tuners from Sweetwater plus an extra bass side V97-18 tuner as a repair part. They were on back order from Grover. The pack of six showed up 10 days ago. The spare part tuner showed up last Friday. The cost for the set of 6 was $61.00 or $10.17 per tuner. The cost of the single tuner as a repair part was $ 21.

Total cost was $82 or an average of $11.71 per tunner. I am very happy with the quality of the Grover tuners. Well worth the cost. I am just happy this is not an 8 string Smile

!

There were actually two original tuners that had been repaired (poorly).

I removed the old tuners and filled all the screw holes with tiny dowels (round hardwood toothpicks) and Titebond glue.

After the glue dried, I used a chisel to trim the toothpicks down smooth. Since the headstock is painted black, I used a Sharpie pen to color the dowels black.

One of my pet peeves is seeing a guitar with replacement tuners where the installer didn't take the time to fill & color the old tuner screw holes. Ugh!

The front bushings are slightly larger than the original bushings. I drilled out the tuner holes using a 21/64ths drill bit. Then the new bushings just tapped in.

I then installed the new Grover tuners. Here is the back side view. The original tuners are on the left, the new Grover tuners are on the right. The repaired tuners are circled in red.

The front view:

Why did I replace the tuners? Well after 88 years of use and two tuners repaired (poorly IMHO), it was time to replace them.

If you can't tune it, you can't play it.

You may quote me on that Smile

I am still waiting on my tech to make the new nut. He is backed up but I am in his queue. The National 7 is coming along.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8

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