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Topic: Bolt on thru a deluxe reverb |
Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 7:37 am |
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Here's a youtube of a few songs I played at a restaurant in NC.
I remember this gig. The sound man constantly hounded me "you're too damn loud!" on the previous gig we had there.
My response was to bring a 20 watt Deluxe Reverb. I received the same instructions 
After watching the video, I'm beginning to think he has a point. I was frustrated and playing as quite as I could, plus it sounds a bit pitchy.
Maybe my ears are toast at this point.
That guitar seems to really cut on the high end, even with my stool in front of the amp and no help from the PA.
Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4l5j120z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDxRJmIN64E |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 9:18 am
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hey Mike! sounds great to me man
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Samuel Phillippe
From:
Douglas Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 9:31 am
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Mike, it sounded good to me......volume and playing.
Sam |
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Dennis Belt
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 12:06 pm
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| That sounded really good, playing and tone both. You are in a very cool band! |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 12:14 pm
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| I have a silverface Deluxe with a Milkman Neo speaker, and I think it sounds wonderful with steel. Ain’t gonna play no rock’n’roll, though. |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 3:27 pm
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Thanks for posting guys
I've had several "you're playing too loud" comments over the last few years.
The venues available to me are not the large rowdy bar situations of the past, they are smaller and more intimate in nature. I don't wanna be that guy that plays too loud.
Are any of facing theses type of gigs?
Mike |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 4:56 pm
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Mike, you and the steel sounded great.
If I were faced with a situation like the stage you're playing in the videos, I might have the Deluxe off to the side, rather than behind you. Have it pointed at your head, facing toward the band (not audience). You'd probably be fine that way.
Yeah, venues are getting more and more frightened of sound, so we have to adapt to unrealistic expectations, sometimes. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 5:33 pm
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| My son played some gigs where they use a decibel meter and set a limit. If you've too loud after a warning they send you packing. Crazy how the gigs have changed. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 9:03 pm
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| My old ears do not here anything out of the Bass. No bass in the mix makes your steel stand out in the mix. Even though the steel is not to loud in the mix. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 9:49 pm
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I didn't hear anything wrong with that. There's always someone that will think somethings too loud. Good playing.
RC |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 11:03 pm
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Mike, I think you sounded just fine. Your playing was tasteful, and sensitive to the singer and the song. I think the steel fit in the mix very nicely. A Deluxe Reverb is one of the best-sounding pedal steel amps I can think of, in the right situation, and this seems like one.
But I definitely feel your pain on volume complaints. I sometimes face the exact same worrying about volume in more intimate playing situations. I sometimes turn to my silverface Princeton Reverb, even for steel. But I prefer my Deluxe Reverb or Quilter Tone Block for pedal steel. They don't have to be loud, but have more headroom. For Tele these days, I'm frequently playing, quite literally, through a little 5 Watt tweed Princeton clone (Valvetrain 205). There are a couple of venues I play where they literally ask bands not to bring amps and to run through their modelers. But they seem to be OK if I bring a real small amp. These places are more in the line of high-end dinner places - they expect the overall volume to be at conversational levels. It's possible to make it work with amps, but the amps have to be scaled down.
I also think a lot of people just don't understand steel guitar, to put it mildly. Played in the traditional manner, it is a very present sound. Not necessarily loud, but it commands attention. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 5:30 am
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| I've noticed that the listening crowd wants music they like to be louder and something they don't like to be turned down. Nothing wrong with your performance Mike. Sounds perfect for the group and venue. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 7:36 am
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No problems with your tone, pitch, or playing!... Only thing "wrong" to my ears, was that i would have leaned a little harder on the Reverb knob.. Nice little band there, and you tastefully played what was needed.. Your critique of your pitch, sound and playing is unwarranted. I can understand being a humble guy and all, but remember, most musicians and knowledgeble casual listeners out there in the audience are marveling at what you are laying down. The rest who might not like it?.. meh, who cares?- Most of them are either brain dead, wasted,uninterested, or just not very bright. OR-all of the above. bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 9:01 am
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Really nice playing. The steel doesn’t sound out of balance volume-wise to me.
Volume issues are the nature of the beast on a restaurant gig, as Dave M implies in his post. It’s a different skill set, playing for people on dates who just want to sit there and eat and talk. I don’t recommend trying to make a career of it. For me, the bar was if I can hear myself over the chatter, I’m probably too loud. I never once had any restaurant manager ask me to please turn it up. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 10:21 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| No problems with your tone, pitch, or playing!... Only thing "wrong" to my ears, was that i would have leaned a little harder on the Reverb knob.. Nice little band there, and you tastefully played what was needed.. Your critique of your pitch, sound and playing is unwarranted. I can understand being a humble guy and all, but remember, most musicians and knowledgeble casual listeners out there in the audience are marveling at what you are laying down. The rest who might not like it?.. meh, who cares?- Most of them are either brain dead, wasted,uninterested, or just not very bright. OR-all of the above. bob |
Its all about the singer. The general public don't realize that the singer sounds good to them because of the band. As for the steel players, they are only as good as the rhythm section. Buddy Spicher said that about fiddle players, and he was spot on. It's a team effort. A good disciplined player, like yourself, already knows this. The great fiddler Scotty Stoneman said " if you're playing to please other musicians, you'll starve to death"
Do you think that the audience watching two average steel players would notice if one was playing 3 pedals and 4 knees, vs. the other with an extra pedal and a few more knees? So, I guess it does come down to searching for a different sound and steel players will be the first to notice, and probably the only ones to notice, and only the advanced players at that.
RC |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 1:32 pm
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Thanks for all the replies,
Jim, that's most likely the best solution. I have tried the amp high and to my side. I seem to play very timid hearing myself that way. I'm gonna start practicing at home with amp in that position. Remember Skunk Baxter playing live shows with headphones 
Bobby, that's a great point, I don't hear the bass either. Dude is a really good player too.
Bob, thanks for compliment. I do worry too much about the stuff. I watched a amazing guitarist loose a job over this type of crap. The business side of music sucks. The C6 stuff sounds pitchy to me, E9 is passable.
Dave, 5 watts. Wow |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 6:23 pm
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
Do you think that the audience watching two average steel players would notice if one was playing 3 pedals and 4 knees, vs. the other with an extra pedal and a few more knees?
RC |
Point taken, Rick, but I think you overestimate the average below average audience’s ability to even notice a pedal steel guitar for what it is.
To me, this has all the markings of a place with a sound guy who has a bone for steel guitar, or maybe all guitars. Wouldn’t be the first.
If this restaurant is your only gig, tread lightly and face the amp toward you. If that doesn’t work, try to find a gig where you can really play for people who want and deserve to hear good steel playing. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2024 6:28 pm
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| Mike Bagwell wrote: |
| Jim, that's most likely the best solution. I have tried the amp high and to my side. I seem to play very timid hearing myself that way. |
I don't love it either, but have grown used to having an amp on the floor, pointed towards my ears. I still can't really get with an amp up off the ground, near head-level though. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 5 Jul 2024 12:50 am
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| Quote: |
| Dave, 5 watts. Wow |
That's for Tele, not pedal steel. These 5 Watt tweed amps actually sound very good for electric guitar if you don't have to crank them. Well, they sound good cranked if you want distortion, but most of the time I don't. I use the stoutest 8" speaker I can find. I play Tele in a (gasp!) bluegrass band, and with that little amp, it sounds just fine keeping the volume exactly at the level of the acoustic instruments. To get any louder than that, we have the sound people mic stuff. We rehearse with no vocals or acoustic instruments mic'd, and we try to keep our gig stage volume like that. Sometimes the vocal monitors get louder and we need to turn up a bit, but not much.
Princeton Reverb, nominally 12-15 Watts, is as low as I'll generally go for pedal steel. I actually have used a 6 Watt silverface Vibro-Champ a few times with a somewhat upgraded 8" speaker. The later blackface/silverface Champ/Vibro-Champ can work, they're voiced differently than the tweed amps. More sparkle, a bit more scooped midrange. But the Princeton Reverb is better to me. Mine has an MI-series JBL 10" speaker. But ideally, I still prefer a Deluxe Reverb with JBL D120F for pedal steel in lower-volume situations. But at some places, they look at the size of the amp and say, 'that's too much'. So far, the Princeton Reverb hasn't flummoxed anybody. And they really can sound very good for steel at low volumes.
Especially with these smaller amps, I prefer amps on the floor, ideally near a wall or corner. Corner loading - improves the bass response, which is important for smaller amps. Tilted back to point at my head if necessary, but I still prefer some contact with the floor. |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2024 6:20 am
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Thanks Dave,
I have 2 Deluxe Reverbs 68 and a 69. The 68 non RI has a JBL 120 and the 69 has a Weber C12n copy. That's the smallest amp I own.
I grew up playing in large Honky Tonks thru various Twins,Peaveys,Evans ect. I played very loud.Now its a bunch of smaller gigs.
There's a new law in in place in SC, whereby the owner of a bar is held responsible for a intoxicated patron leaving the bar and hurting someone. All clubs must carry some really expensive insurance, many choose to close.
Last night I played a Duo in a restaurant. Stringmaster thru the 68 DR. We miced the amp and I tilted it toward me on my RH side. I had no complaints. I just need to get used to it 
Mike |
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Larry Jamieson
From:
Walton, NY USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2024 5:35 am
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| Very nice, Mike. Sounds real sweet to me. I enjoyed your music. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 8 Jul 2024 9:32 am
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| Quote: |
| But at some places, they look at the size of the amp and say, 'that's too much'. |
That's just nuts. I can play quietly, using my big ol' Evans amp. The volume knob does a great job....of turning down the volume.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Jul 2024 10:47 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But at some places, they look at the size of the amp and say, 'that's too much'. |
That's just nuts. I can play quietly, using my big ol' Evans amp. The volume knob does a great job....of turning down the volume.
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A big old Evans, Session 400, or Twin Reverb would be hard at the places I'm talking about. Would have to run amp barely cracked on to keep at the volumes they want. They mostly insist on small amps on a small stand (which they provide), and prefer people to run direct into the PA through modelers. Their own staff typically runs the sound, and they keep a tight lid on the overall volume. The place that asks for stands is OK with my amp on the floor because they know I won't blow them away - it has taken a few gigs with them to generate that trust. But they have had some bad experiences with people coming in with large amps and blowing the patrons' hair back while they're eating dinner.
For the most part, I'm talking about upscale dinner places, small brew pubs, small wine bars, coffee houses, and the like. A big part of this is that, for the type of music I prefer to play, the audience is older. Most of the loud music around here centers around hip hop, techno/dance music, or college/grunge/classic rock for college students. Country, blues, folk, jazz, bluegrass, Americana, and so on, are not the flavors of the month. There are audiences for this kind of stuff, but mostly older and things are expected to be fairly temperate. It doesn't really bother me - it is possible to deal with this stuff by simply scaling down. A Princeton or Deluxe Reverb sounds great at lower volumes, for steel or guitar.
Another issue is that the space at many of the places I'm playing these days is pretty tight. For many of these places, full drums are a no-go. Maybe a cajon or snare/hat with brushes. Pedal steel doesn't fit at some, and does at others. So sometimes it's guitar and/or lap steel. I'm a musician - I want to play. So I do what I can.
This is the way a LOT of gigs have gone around here. Lots of singles, duos, trios. Full band gigs are getting to be hard to come by. And if you're too loud, you will not be asked back. One place actually told a guitarist he couldn't use the large amp he showed up with. He left and they didn't play.
Welcome to the post-covid world. Around here, anyway. This ain't Texas. |
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Bobby Martin
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2024 12:41 pm Small amps for psg"polite volume gigs".
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I agree with you and Dave on using a Deluxe Reverb w/JBL for most gigs these days,2 1/2 to 3 volume and tasty reverb is not LOUD! We all played Twin Reverbs and 100w Peaveys really loud on all gigs in the '70's but have adapted to lower volume venues nowdays. I've played very polite "listening" room gigs and recorded with my Fender Champion 40 w/Eminence speaker a lot lately and in church it sounds "Heavenly". Pedal steel in a band has to be " present" and not just for looks. We're being excluded/overlooked in current so-called country music, so let's play and be heard on live shows, might even inspire a youngster or two to tackle the art of pedal steel playing.
_________________
Retired my "Flying Pro III" playin' gigs with the "little bud" in the Northern Shenandoah Valley. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2024 6:40 pm
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I had to get a hearing aid for my left ear about a year ago. Right ear is good. Can’t say for sure, but I usually play on the right side of the stage so my left ear has been exposed to most of the music. I’ve played with some loud bands in the past. Some of my friends use ear plugs on stage.At this point, I refuse to play in an environment that’s so loud you need ear plugs to protect your hearing. The larger gigs where the drums are miked and everything goes through the PA, you don’t need to play that loud, it’s the smaller gigs where they blow your ears out. I remember one particular gig from about 15 years ago that a guy was singing “Living On Tulsa Time” and the drums were so loud that my ears and head hurt. Funny I’d remember that. I guess I’m paying for it now.
RC |
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