Pierce steel guitars

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Would like to see if anyone on here can shed any info on this guitar and its maker. Found very little info doing a search. It's got a great sounding pickup,with a volume and tone control. A primitive looking undercarriage, but it works, although a little wonky pedalwise. Otherwise it's in great shape cosmetically. Thinking of converting it to a non pedal console. It is super lightweight. Thanks.

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

All the cast metal parts and the pickup were probably made by a guy named Ray Krick from Rochester, IN. He had partnered with someone who built these. I think he originally came from around Muncie, IN, and the Pierce guitars were made around there, maybe Winchester?

Ray was a non-pedal guy who played in Muncie and Indy back in the 1950's. He was a jewelry repair guy by day. He saw an early pedal steel on a bandstand, and when he asked about the tuning and mechanics, the guy told him to take a hike. So when the player went to the bathroom, Ray looked at the mechanics of the steel and went home and built one. He built every guitar he ever played. He played up until 2015 or so. He sand-casted all his own pedals, cranks, necks and keyplates. He wound his own pickups. Strange and interesting dude. He was a really great player, and he used a G6/D9 tuning that played with the A-B pedals down, so you would release them to get the typical A-B pedal moves...some guys back then did that.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Thanks Rick, info like that is what makes these old guitars come to life. The whole body of this steel is one piece,cast. With,what looks like a hard rock maple top and neck. I'm trying to figure out what the original tuning and co-ped would have been, as it was totally disassembled when I got it. With 4 pedals,eight strings and no lower mechanism, if it was E9,I can see A,B, and E/F, but I'm lost on what the 4th pedal would be used for.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

,, yikes...Don't hack that nice little guitar into a console.. Its in great shape, its rare, and there are probably very few left, especially looking as good as that one does. Why not add another lever or two, tune it to tuning you like, and play/enjoy it as it was intended, with pedals intact. Any non pedal tuning you would care to put on would benefit from a few pedals anyway. You would only save a pound or 2 by removing the pull mechanism anyway, if weight is a concern.. If you really need a non pedal console,there are guys here that would buy that steel in a second as it sits, and then you could simply buy a non pedal guitar.. Someone might even swap straight up for a non pedal of some sort, if thats what you really want... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

The integrated pickup and bridge assembly look a whole lot like the Holiday non pedal steel guitars that were made in Winchester. Wonder if there might be some connection there.

Dave

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Yeah you're right Bob, thanks for slapping me back to reality. The more I tinker with it, the more determined I am to keep it in it's original state. One pedal rod is broke so I will be replacing it. Putting some levers on it was my first thought too, and still might,if my pea brain can figure it out. But I would sure like to know the original co-ped and tuning that the builder conceived, with 4 raise pedals. If I'm going to learn to play it with no knees, I'd like to know what he had in mind.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

The old Fender 8 string pedal guitars [ model 400] were made I believe to be played in A6.. lots of guys adapted them to E9 as well, but the earlier[better sounding] long scale models from like 1958 to 63 or so would break the high g# relentlessly.. D9 was a better choice if one wanted to use the E9 chromatic tuning.. If I had that nice little Pierce, I would check out the mechanism closely and see if it was indeed a "fixed" changer that could not be adjusted outside of the original setup.. I tend to doubt that personally.. You might be able to get a lot more out of thet guitar than you think.. In any case, lets say its totally fixed and can't be changed.. I would check out some standard 8 string lap/console tunings, and see which ones would benefit from raises on the strings that are being raised currently... Think about this.. In the 50's guys would give anything to get an 8 string console guitar that could raise 4 strings.

Look at this video.. This guy is a master of course, but this is what he can get from his "limited" steel guitar.. Poor guy,, only has 6 strings and 2 pulls!!.LOL!.

I would ask some questions here on this forum about 8 string tunings with ideas for 4 pedals.. Me, I would go with a modified E or E7 to get the standard "A/B pedal country changes, and also see if I could get at least 1 lower out of the changer thats on it.. Thats a great looking old guitar, and i would enjoy playing it,, Its not something you see every day, and there's lots of great music left in it.. I hope you enjoy it for a very long time... bob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn3mR0HRcbg
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Bob, I'm pretty sure this changer is "fixed",as you say. I've only had modern steels to compare it to. I see no way to lower a string. I'm going to try some older tunings and experiment.
Rick, can you shed any light on the G6/D9 tuning you mentioned? That might just be what they had in mind when it was built. Never thought of using pedals like that.

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

Gil,
you could try this for now. i have it on a marlen 8 string pedal steel. i really like the sound of the e flat pull and the c# note is very musical. you can also half-pedal it and get a d note. it is possible to make a reverser to lower the pitch of a string too. it's just more trial and error but it can be done. as soon as i can i am going to re-rod the marlen to drop the e's on pedal 4. i have a reverser on there now doing a different function. these things are limited but it is very satisfying working out the problem and is in keeping with the spirit of the early innovators always trying something new.

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Rick, thanks for looking.
Mark, I will give that a shot. If you happen to have a photo of the underside of your Marlen, I'd sure like to see that reverser mechanism. I've been playing around with this tuning:
lo to hi,
A
B
D
E
F# -G
A -B
D
F# -G
I'm not sure what its called, maybe G6/D9 ? Trying to keep with a period tuning with this steel. I play dobro and E9, and this is falling right under my fingers for alot of what I'm familiar with. I still have 2 pedals unused, one I'd like to lower, if I can figure it out. Who knew 8 strings could be so much fun. Thanks for chiming in!

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

shoot me an email address via a pm and i'll send a couple pics of the original reverser and my upgraded version. i'd post it here but it won't load.

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

email sent

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Many thanks for your help Mark. Great info.

Mick Hearn · From: United Kingdom

I have just aquired one of these in the UK and my intention is to tune C6 and use the three pedals it came with as pedals 5,6,and 7 of regular C6 pedal. These tend to be the regular pedals I use.

Can anyone tell me the size of the socket bolts used for tuning and thread size. Finding replacements over here could be a bit tricky.

Surprised how light this is. Quite a difference to my MSA Universal. In the case you can swing it round your head with one hand.
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MSA Classic 12 string Universal, Remington Steelmaster D8, National D8 Console x 2, George Boards Lap Steel, National New Yorker.

Bobby Martin · From: Virginia, USA

Glad to see interest in these Pierce steels. I paid $300.00 for one exactly like this in 2019 from harp maker John Kovac here in Front Royal Va. Very similar to a Fender 400 without the cable system. On my retirement bucket list to dial it in (along with a Gibson Electraharp aluminum frame, 6-string Multi-Chord, and Fender 1000 non-roller bridge challenge project). Difficult to play these antiques when you've played Sho-Buds for fifty years and lately a great Show-Pro Lloyd Green.
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Retired my "Flying Pro III" playin' gigs with the "little bud" in the Northern Shenandoah Valley.

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Hi Mick, the tuning nuts are a 7/64's allen (hex) head,looks like standard machine threads. Dont know if this will help you over there.

Bobby, I hear you on the learning curve with these steels. After learning to play on Carter's and GFI's
It's a whole new experience. Gotta hand it to those guys back then, using what they had to make great music.

Mick Hearn · From: United Kingdom

Thanks for the information Gill. Did a search and nothing on line over here. I may have to re tap the changers to M2 and fit new screws.

Getting a raise and a lower on the same cross shaft is an easy fix. Just rotate one of the cranks 180 degrees so that it sits under the cross shaft instead of on top. I may have to make some more anyway as I only have 4 but when done I'll let you know how it works. There are other ways but means making more complicated parts. Don't know if yours is the same but the pull rods connect to the changer with bent wire similar to the Emmons push pull so allows for a bit of slack.
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MSA Classic 12 string Universal, Remington Steelmaster D8, National D8 Console x 2, George Boards Lap Steel, National New Yorker.

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Good luck with the parts Mick. Mark P.sent me some plans to fabricate a reverser mechamism, which I thought was very cool. I could email it to you if you would like. Yeah the pull rods attach to the changer with what I'd call hog rings! The slack is what I had problems with when re-assembling it. I have consigned to the fact that I'm going to leave mine in it's original state and learn to play it as designed. I've found that figuring it out musically with what it has is more satisfying to me, than to try to mechanically alter it.

David Wisson · From: Bedford, Bedfordshire, England

Hi Gill I had one of those it was my first pedal steel. It had a lovely tone but the legs used to walk across the stage. had to keep one eye on the guitar and the other on the edge of the stage. I paid £110 for it and my Dad thought I had paid to much. It ended costing me a lot more over the years as I had caught the Pedal Steel bug! and there's no cure. Dave Very Happy

Gil James · From: Louisiana, USA

Ha, yeah David, this steel needs an anchor! It's sure nice to pack around though. I'm suprised that so many of these found their way across the pond. I'd be interested to know just how many were made. Mr. Pierce was more productive than I originally imagined.

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