First Pedal Steel (Sho Bud?)

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Hello,
Hope the day finds you all well! I’ve been playing guitar for 25ish years and lap steel for a few months now with the eventual goal of moving to pedal steel or at least attempting to. I’ve become completely obsessed with steel and don’t really even play regular guitar anymore… Was in open E for the first 2-3 weeks but then moved on to C6 and haven’t looked back. Figured out some basic lines for stuff like Boot Heel Drag, or Panhandle Rag, in addition to a whole grip of Hawaiian songs, wrote a bit, and even have transcribed some jazz and classical. Having said all that I’m really wanting to make the leap and start the process of getting a steel now at the start of farming season so I can have one here by the time I’m done. I’ve found a Maverick Sho Bud for $999 in tune supposedly but it only has 3 pedals and NO knee levers. How is it to have someone add those? Is it even reasonable? What would you do if you were starting out now? I found a cool looking double neck Sho Bud in Muscle Shoals that I can make payments on…. It’s more than I initially hoped to spend but the proximity and payment options make it attractive. For guitars I typically don’t like super hot pickups and I’m completely new to this but it seems lots are wound to extremely high specs…. There’s going to be a ton to relearn I know because there may be some reason I don’t understand for this but in addition to the history those lower winds seem positive to me. Again I’m clueless…

What I’m thinking is E9 tuning 10 strings, 3 pedals and 4 knee levers..? Wish I could have a 4th pedal that would switch the whole thing to C6 so I could just do my lap steel stuff on this instrument too. I’d prefer single neck and hopefully with one of those arm pads like Lloyd Green had. I’ve got a Supro Thunderbolt with 15” I’ve been using on lap so I assumed I would try it with pedal but otherwise I’ll probably just grab a Quilter with a 1x15 cab. I fully intend to play this in a band as well for the record.

Thanks!

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I would go for the double neck. In my opinion, the Maverick is not a good guitar.

A 4th pedal to change the tuning to a C6 is impractical, and maybe impossible. The amount of string pulls you would have to add would make the pedal extremely hard, if not impossible to press. You would have change too many strings to get anywhere close to a C6.

Pressing the A & B pedals together give somewhat of an A6 tuning. If you had knee levers, the one that would lower the E strings to D# would give you much of a B6 tuning (the change that makes an E9/B6 universal tuning work.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I think you will be much happier with the double neck guitar.

About 10 years ago, I gave some lessons to a guy that bought a Maverick. It was one that had one knee lever and no roller nut. It kept breaking 3rd and 5th strings. He got really disgusted and discouraged, and since he didn't want to upgrade, he just quit.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Yes, I definitely wouldn’t want that. I’m not a tech guy with music equipment. I don’t buy and sell and I don’t like fiddling with stuff. There’s enough in my family life I have to fiddle with. When I sit down at my instrument or play a show I want to forget about all that and just go to that place we all do while playing.

Is there anyone in Alabama who would give lessons or even just that I could watch sometime? I have desperately wanted someone to sort of give me some pointers on arranging things for lap steel because it is it’s on vibe all together. I’m sure pedal steel will be just the same.

Thanks!

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

There are literally bazillions of free lessons on YouTube. Paul Franklin and Travis Toy have great courses, but they are a little pricy (for me anyway).

But, some in-person lessons help identify any bad habits early.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

The closest you can get to both tunings on one neck is a universal, and there you have E9 and B6. Only one fret off from C6, but some of the C6 experts here have said that an actual C6 neck will do more than the B6 side of a universal, so if you "get it" about C6 then you'll want a doubleneck, like Richard says. More cost, more weight, but more capability.

I don't really "get" C6 so my U-12 has as much 6th tuning as I'm likely to need. Winking

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Carter Starter Steel? How are they? There’s a super cheap one right now up for sale…. Like $899 and I have been needing to take trip near where it is anyways.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

If you decide to just go with a single neck, consider a Justice S-10. It’s a professional grade build. Carter Starters are ok, but not nearly as solid. For just a bit more money you can do better. Get a new guitar or wait a while and get an older MSA, Carter(not Starter), Deckley, GFI etc that is more precise mechanically but slightly undervalued by the Community. Even an old Bud could sound great but be finicky to deal with. If you don’t like “fiddling” with things you had better be very careful about what you end up with. Very few steels are totally “set it and forget it”. https://justicesteelguitars.com/justice-s10/
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I agree on the Justice S10 Kevin links, versus a $900 Carter Starter. A 2-pedal, 1-lever Justice S10 is $995, with additional pedals or levers $150 each. The Carter Starter was useful at the time it came out, around 20 years ago. It had issues - mostly mechanical weakness in the levers, which can be dealt with, and a fixed setup. But the Justice uses their pro-level all-pull changer. I would have given my eye teeth for a deal like that when I started.

$1000 3+1 Maverick? Not for me, thanks. Same reasoning as Carter Starte in spades.

Of course, a good used steel like BMI, MSA, Dekley, and so on, is a reasonable option. But prices on these have escalated the last few years. We used to see guitars like this in the $1000-1200 range, but that is getting pretty hard these days. More like creeping up to $2k.

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

I intend to post a bunch of pics on anything I get and use you guys knowledge to my advantage. When I said I don’t like fiddling with things it was more of a I am not the modding type that gets a pedal and switches transistors or tries 10 different tubes in amps or just messes with gear as part of my practice. Some people I’ve met online seem to fiddle with their stuff constantly and it’s almost like they enjoy that as much as playing, that’s not me. I obviously will work on things, for a very long time everything I had came from other peoples junk heaps. I am going to do the necessary maintenance to maintain a proper instrument but I’m not gonna be tweaking on it…. If that makes sense…? I just don’t like buying/selling equipment and messing with it, I want to be studying music theory and what new ways I can apply ideas. So, ultimately, yes I would prefer to get a steel, even for more money that allowed me to play more and fiddle with it less. The less the better honestly.

Definitely would rather spend the extra money and get something I’m happier with. It just kills me to spend $3000 on anything…. I mean I think about all the other uses for it and I just have an impulse to spend less. I would rather have a double neck but I have a sneaking suspicion that whatever I get on this first go isn’t going to be the pedal steel I keep for the next 50 years.

With the lessons it’s more what you said just make sure I’m not engraining something I’ll have to relearn later and also because I pick up a lot just watching people. Seeing how someone that knows what’s up approaches things.

On the “getting” C6 thing, what do you mean? That E9 covers your needs and it’s kinda redundant to you or….? Seems Lloyd Green only used the E9 tuning.

Thanks!

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Also, for the record, I am going to be insanely busy over the coming months. I sold the first loads of tomatoes on Friday/Saturday and it’ll be like that till the freeze comes….. So, I am not rushing, just…. Always wanted one of these but convinced myself I didn’t need it for 100 different reasons in the past. I really want to use one with a band though, it’s always looked like a blast to me and now that I’m in my late 30’s I have chilled out a bit where sitting down during a show would even be possible for me.

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

This is the one closest to home. I’m not far from Birmingham and interestingly enough it seems another Steel Forum member lived within a few miles of me for years but…. I can’t get a reply from anything so I imagine they moved or something.

https://reverb.com/item/80576379-sho-bud-dual-neck-6-pedal-2-knee-levers-pedal-steel-no-case

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

That’s a ShoBud Crossover. You will hear other opinions, but in your position I would avoid it like a smallpox diseased blanket.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Sho Bud Crossover for $2600, no case? Are you kidding me? Run, Forrest, Run.

These guitars have well documented problems. Just search for Sho Bud Crossover, you'll see lots.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Looks as if "Six-String-Sticker-Shock" has raised its ugly head again. A lot of that group(I was gigging lead guitar for 20 years before taking up PSG) is used to offshore Les Pauls, Strats, et cetera for a good deal less than a G.

Probably the most difficult aspect of taking up PSG is what it costs to get into a good rig! Winking

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Well I definitely understand the cost, it’s clearly a lot that goes into this and it seems pretty specialized so… not saying it’s an issue at all and also I feel better about spending $3k on this than $3k on a new Les Paul for instance.

Does anything tone/gear wise translate? Like my major preference for single coils? I have some great instruments Steve Klein electric, 59 JM, 72 Tele Custom, 80’s D’Aquisto, 39 Ric, it isn’t so much the price of the instrument btw it’s my ignorance about them, what I will like and the fact it’s my first one. If I could try a few different things I’d probably feel way different but I’ve never even seen 1 pedal steel in a store much less more than 1. Certainly never played one and these things will be way more difficult to flip and try than guitars. Which again, I hate the buying/selling process, I just want to play, everything else is a distraction.

Appreciate the heads up on the Sho Bud. All I knew is it was close-ish, I could pay for it over the next 3 months once I start getting some checks rolling in and a lot of music was recorded in that area making me think it might have been someone who knew what was up because frequently specialized gear from up there was owned by some session or studio guy.

Thanks!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Yeah, old x-over model Baldwin. Heavy as a tank. Only 6 pedals. Most of them only had one knee lever but looks like someone has "crafted" a couple more on this one.

The idea for the crossover mechanical system was that you could use a lever to switch the pedal action and mechanics between the necks.

Had the rack and barrel system, or at least the one I had did.

Beautiful cabinetry, nice sounding instruments just way short of modern D10 guitars.

The biggest problem with the crossover system is that if you weren't careful switching from one neck to the other, it could all fall out in your lap.

FWIW, I sold the one I had which was in pristine condition with the original pristine HSC for well under $1K, but that was 20 yrs. ago.

Prices have skyrocketed since, but that's still a pretty hefty price for one of these. For that money, you should be able to find a much more modern guitar with better playability.

Chris Brooks · From: Providence, Rhode Island

Hi Shea. The guys have covered lots of good points. Here is (are?) my 2 cents.

Carter Starter? A big no.

Maverick? Another large no.

Professional Sho-Buds can be great--for pros. You should buy a "modern" Steel. You want to play it, not fiddle with it--right?

Don't worry about what kind of pickups are "best." Buy a stable steel guitar and play it for 3 years. Then worry about pickups, amps, etc. How about a Justice, as Mr Maul suggests?

Reconcile yourself to paying $3000, more or less. Priced other instruments recently? A decent new intermediate Yamaha tenor sax is 3200!

Here are two sources: Billy Cooper's shop in Orange, VA: not that far from you; and Jim Palenscar's shop in California. Check their inventory. I would buy an S 10. You can learn E 9 especially since you have non-pedal knowledge already. And yes, you can get C 6-ish sounds.

I just looked at Billy Cooper's site. He has some excellent modern guitars for under 2500 (Derby, GFI, Mullen).

At Steel Guitars of North County, Jim has a GFI Expo for 3500.

And there are lots of plusses in buying from a shop.

Chris

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Definitely taking y’all’s advice. I emailed Justice earlier today and will look at the shops mentioned. I travel a whole lot both to play music or for fun and work. I spend several weeks a year in California, Arizona, Florida, etc. So, going to one of these shops wouldn’t be too much of a hassle plus I enjoy driving anyways. I will go with a modern and it definitely seems $3k is the price no matter what for a decent enough instrument.

Thanks again!

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Also, for the record I’m just tight with my money period…. I don’t think this is an unreasonable price or anything…. It doesn’t matter what it is, groceries even.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

Hi Shea, another two cents from me, having about 6 years into playing PSG.

From hearing about you, I would say buy something modern (new) and standard-not student but not top end either. Don't worry about what you don't know because you don't know.

I started with a GFI expo D10. It was bought for me; I had no idea about anything regarding steel guitars. I learned from it, and being standard config. most of what I learned from YouTube was easily understood. Great tone, great intonation (stays in tune) and not super heavy. I would keep it if I could (it's Army property) but I liked playing so much I spent 8 grand on a Mullen.

Haven't played Justice but they must be good and seem reasonable. GFIs are great and also reasonable. It is a set it and forget it guitar. Like me, you'll play it for years without ever looking underneath it. Visit Billy Cooper if you have a chance.

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