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Topic: How to cut sheet steel for changer scissors |
Les Ford
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 20 Aug 2022 8:26 am |
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Any ideas on the best way to make the parts for the scissors in an all pull changer? They are fairly complicated; needing the half inch hole for the axle, the corresponding rounding of the top to match the fingers, the bent tabs with the holes for the pull rods, the drilled return spring extensions and so on.
I was looking at cutting these shapes out on the bandsaw but they are pretty fiddley for that approach. Are these parts usually stamped out before bending?
I'm trying to find a way that maximizes my chances of keeping my fingers. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 20 Aug 2022 2:13 pm Can be cut on a Band Saw
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Hi Les,
They can be cut on a Band Saw, but you should get a metal cutting blade.
Before cutting the sheet steel, Copy some drawings of the parts and glue them onto the sheet metal.
Center punch all the holes and drill them first on a drill press.
Then after that remove any rough edges with a file.
Doing the bend is easy if you get a "Steel Break". I got my 18" break from Harbor Freight for about $40.00 and it does a good job with little effort.
As for getting the top edges rounded nicely. I would make a jig with an axel the same size as the axel hole size. Clamp it to a disk sander table base and rotate the parts one at a time agains the spinning sander disk. 
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2022 7:43 pm
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If you use a bandsaw to cut your parts, Use Paraffin Wax or Bee's Wax rubbed on both sides of blade for lube. It will cut much better.
When drilling thin metal sheet, Be very careful and use Pliers or Vice Grips to hold the piece, If the drill grabs as it goes through the sheet metal, It can fold, twist and wrap around the drill bit and take your fingers into a dangerous situation.
Worked in a machine shop, Shop owner had a missing finger from a drill press and thin sheet metal accident.
Good Luck On Your Build. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 24 Aug 2022 9:07 pm
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The steel scissors on most production guitars are made with a punch press. A tool maker fabricates a custom die for each piece in the correct shape and the shop can punch out a big pile of them at once, holes and all, flat, consistent shape, nice clean edges. It's not something you can easily replicate with common tools in a home shop. That leaves you with the more crude methods described, bandsaw, grinder, file, etc. As Bobby suggests, that approach can be a really good way to slice the crap out your finger(s) so be very careful.
You might consider using 1/16" 6061 aluminum angle instead to fabricate the scissors. It's not going to be as durable over the long haul, but much easier to work and achieve clean and consistent results with more basic tools.
Another note if you haven't disassembled a PSG scissor before, but the halves are typically joined with what is called a "shoulder rivet", which has thicker "shoulder" section in the tenon adjacent to the head and slightly longer than the thickness of the scissor material. One half of the scissor has a larger hole that corresponds to the diameter of the shoulder. This provides a small amount of free play for that scissor, so it's not squeezed up tight against the other piece when the rivet is cinched up. If you're not able to find the correct size shoulder rivet you can just use rivets with straight tenons and fabricate some small bushings to slide over the tenon and serve the same purpose.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 25 Aug 2022 6:15 am Ian is right, but...
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I agree. Ian is right, No question about it, but most people on this thread will not have access to a punch press or tool and die maker to fabricate these parts.
Even if you did have someone like that available, the cost would be quite high.
There is another alternative less expensive and risky way. Have the 1/16" (1.5mm) sheet steel laser cut to shape. The laser can also make the needed holes.. You would need to provide the drawings.
I get my steel fretboards and other metal parts cut by laser at a sign shop.
Most trophy shops can also do some of these things.
Bobby had this very good advise: "If you use a bandsaw to cut your parts, Use Paraffin Wax or Bee's Wax rubbed on both sides of blade for lube. It will cut much better.
When drilling thin metal sheet, Be very careful and use Pliers or Vice Grips to hold the piece, If the drill grabs as it goes through the sheet metal, It can fold, twist and wrap around the drill bit and take your fingers into a dangerous situation".
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 29 Aug 2022 8:58 pm Re: Ian is right, but...
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| Andy DePaule wrote: |
...but most people on this thread will not have access to a punch press or tool and die maker to fabricate these parts.
Even if you did have someone like that available, the cost would be quite high... |
...that's the point...
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 30 Aug 2022 9:24 am Thanks Ian
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Thanks Ian,
Hope you didn't think I was knocking what you wrote because I know you were on point and right.
It would be nice if someone who had the dies for a good changer design would have a bunch stamped out for sale.
I imagine the market for them would be very limited.
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Les Ford
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 30 Aug 2022 2:23 pm Thanks Guys
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| Ian Worley wrote: |
| The steel scissors on most production guitars are made with a punch press. A tool maker fabricates a custom die for each piece in the correct shape and the shop can punch out a big pile of them at once, holes and all, flat, consistent shape, nice clean edges. It's not something you can easily replicate with common tools in a home shop. That leaves you with the more crude methods described, bandsaw, grinder, file, etc. As Bobby suggests, that approach can be a really good way to slice the crap out your finger(s) so be very careful. |
The parts that I have seen look like they have been stamped so this certainly makes sense.
Water cutting sounds like it might be a good idea. I'll try to price that out and see if it's doable. Otherwise I'll try to come up with a fixture/jig to help me cut these things without losing any fingers. Hand guiding those cuts just looks dangerous to me.
I like the aluminum idea. I'm thinking that there might be issues with wear on aluminum parts but the lighter weight of those parts might make for a more lively tone from the bridge/changer assembly. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 30 Aug 2022 6:58 pm Good thought Les...
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Good thought Les,
Please post what you find out about the cost of doing it that way.
I'd completely forgot about that method of cutting steel.
Good luck to you and to us all on that,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 31 Aug 2022 8:59 am
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If you have the capability to produce dxf files (ie from AutoCAD or other CAD software), there are lots of laser cutting places who could easily make the scissors and even add the bends, for example
https://sendcutsend.com/
$29 minimum order and lots of available materials
I agree with the safety thoughts of everyone above on trying to cut then on a saw, especially compared to the ease of uploading a dxf and having them appear in a couple weeks.
Could maybe even laser cut the control fingers although the laser cut edge surface would need finishing for string contact area, shaft hole reaming, etc.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Les Ford
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 8:42 am Waterjet Cut Parts
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I ended up going with the water cutting option at a fabricator in Nanaimo, which is close to me. The cost in Canadian dollars was 8 dollars for each set of two parts for each string.
I just made up the drawings in Adobe Illustrator and exported them as Dxf files for the cutter.
Something to be aware of is that the two larger holes for the rivet and the shaft have to be drilled out to clean them up to size. It looks like the cutter software is doing some kind of compensation for the cut line. This is a good thing because it gives a chance to remove any burrs and avoids the hole being oversized due to the kerf of the cut.
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 8:51 am
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| lookin' good! |
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Les Ford
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 28 Sep 2022 3:01 pm Thanks Ross
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| Ross Shafer wrote: |
| lookin' good! |
Thanks Ross, You have been a complete inspiration to me. Your guitars are on a whole other level. |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2024 7:01 am Working on metal
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| I like using emachine.com |
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