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Topic: Those Emmons student model tone |
Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 7 May 2017 9:37 am |
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A student of mine brought his Emmons stock 3x3 student model to a lesson for me to tweak. I plugged it in and was immediately blown away by its tone.
For gigging I use D10 push-pulls. But, wow, the "baby-brother-model" easily gives them all a run for the money, tonewise. |
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Tom Vollmer
From:
Hamburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 7 May 2017 12:57 pm
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| I agree. I have worked on and played 4 or 5 of these over the years and have found that they sound as good as D-10 and S-10 Push Pull Emmons as I have played them side by side. The interesting thing is these models do not have an aluminum neck so how much does the neck add or mean to the sound? |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 7 May 2017 2:41 pm
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| Tom Vollmer wrote: |
| The interesting thing is these models do not have an aluminum neck so how much does the neck add or mean to the sound? |
Not only do they not have an aluminum neck, they have no neck whatsoever (at least mine doesn't). Great sounding guitars nevertheless. |
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Jeff Hogsten
From:
Flatwoods Ky USA
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Posted 7 May 2017 2:50 pm
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| Can they play as good. Is there a limit to pedals and knees |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 7 May 2017 3:59 pm
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Jeff, I've got one here now to set up for a friend. His is 3 and 1 but don't think there are any limitations on guitar. It's a regular push pull under carriage and changer. The cabinet is just more or less a box with no neck at all on it, just fret boards and black end plates. The pedal bar is wood and the legs don't adjust is where they cut price on them. Haven't tried this one yet because it's really unplayable now and strings have hair on them. Just needs set up and tuned I think and new strings. Will post when I get it done.
Tom, Maurice Anderson did quit a bit of experimenting with necks whether they were wood or aluminum and how to get best tone and sustain. His conclusion was that the tone came from about 2 inches past pickup and back to changer and from there to keyhead didn't make much difference what neck was made of. That's why a lot of MSA's have wood necks like the Classic SS. I know that theirs been a lot of discussion on guitar necks but I really think the neck material makes very little if any difference in tone on some guitars. I've had both type Emmons boltons, one metal neck and one wood neck. There was very little difference in tone and sustain, both sounded great and the wood neck was just a tad brighter probably due to pickups and other parts of guitar but that's just me and my 2 cents.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 May 2017 1:55 am
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| Jeff Hogsten wrote: |
| Is there a limit to pedals and knees |
My GS-10 has four knees (thanks, Clem) and three on the floor. In theory there's no limit. Probably not the best candidate for a vertical knee lever, however, due to its light weight. |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 8 May 2017 9:35 am
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| My first steel was an Emmons GS-10 built in 1974 and it sure was an awesome guitar! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 8 May 2017 10:51 am
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| I rebuilt one for a friend, that was going to give it to his son. I had a 71 D-10 PP at the time and really very little difference in tone. He asked me what I thought about the student model and I told him I wouldn't be afraid to use it on a job. |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 9 May 2017 1:46 pm
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| I have one of these, the ugly ass bowling ball model, and yes, it sings like a bird. I play D8 Gibson Console half the time so I am used to playing with less. Also have a fully loaded Legrande that I use for when really need to go all out like for big country cover band or something. But for local sit ins and americana type local bands the little GS10 is perfect. Grab and go. I kinda want to upgrade it from 3x1 one day but for now it is really fun to try to find ways to get things without the extra pulls. Slants and such. May also paint it one day. For now it is a big time push pull sleeper! I am taking it out twice this week for sit ins. It sounds like 500 lb monster through my LTD400. I get a kick taking it out. And minimal set up. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2024 9:34 am
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I recently added a GS10 to my herd. IT came with a BL 710 pickup so the body was routed out and a new pickgard was made. It's an early 70's push/pull. I found an Emmons original pickup (from a C6 neck) and this guitar just screams...in a good way. I will add a lever or two and use it for double duty gigs where I play more tele than steel...no need to carry extra weight just to play a few songs on steel...
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Feb 2024 2:54 pm
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Mine has pedals added to make it a 3x4, adjustable legs a loafer pad, a metal neck and edging.
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2024 3:07 pm
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| Quote: |
| Mine has pedals added to make it a 3x4, adjustable legs a loafer pad, a metal neck and edging. |
Looks like a pro model, and most likely sounds like one. Mine still has the brown self paper. I may change it eventually. I have spare adjusting legs...but then I'm adding weight! LOL! Maybe I can use one adjustable leg just to level it.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Feb 2024 3:16 pm
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| Dave Zirbel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Mine has pedals added to make it a 3x4, adjustable legs a loafer pad, a metal neck and edging. |
Looks like a pro model, and most likely sounds like one. Mine still has the brown self paper. I may change it eventually. I have spare adjusting legs...but then I'm adding weight! LOL! Maybe I can use one adjustable leg just to level it. |
No, it has "GS" stamped underneath. All those features were added later and I don't know by whom. The metal neck is just a little over 1/4" thick which makes it much thinner than the pro necks which look (to me) like 3/4" or 1". You can see a little piece of the old pickguard remaining that mounts the tone and vol pots. It's pretty roughly cut.
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2024 5:24 pm
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| Quote: |
| No, it has "GS" stamped underneath. All those features were added later and I don't know by whom. The metal neck is just a little over 1/4" thick which makes it much thinner than the pro necks which look (to me) like 3/4" or 1". You can see a little piece of the old pickguard remaining that mounts the tone and vol pots. It's pretty roughly cut. |
I meant that it looked like a pro model, knowing it was a GS10. Great job! Most people won’t notice the difference, except for maybe other steel players. 😂
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 6:27 am
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| i've been thinking about getting one of these as a second guitar. being so light, i'm curious about their stability. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 7:18 am
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| Dave Zirbel wrote: |
| I meant that it looked like a pro model, knowing it was a GS10. Great job! Most people won’t notice the difference, except for maybe other steel players. 😂 |
Oh, I read it wrong. Sorry.
| Dave Campbell wrote: |
| i've been thinking about getting one of these as a second guitar. being so light, i'm curious about their stability. |
Mine is stable. I only ever have to touch up at the keyhead now and then and I only ever really do that at the beginning of every practice session. I often don't have to do anything at all. The stops stay where they are at, once you get them set up. Whenever I sound out of tune, I know it's me and not the instrument.
Also, I use TE Tuner which is as good a tuner as you can buy and I don't see any cabinet drop at all.
I was just discussing this with another player the other day and how I have thought about selling it or trading it for a Sho-Bud SD10 as it seems all of my favorite players use Sho-Buds and I love the darker tone they get. As well, I thought it might be more comfortable to move the knee levers further back which an SD allows. However, in the end, this student model sounds amazing and I don't have any of the problems that I read about on this forum. One of my knee levers was an obvious DIY and can be flexed past it's stop to raise the E's just sharp of F if I really lean into it, but that's the only issue I have.
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 10:14 am
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| Quote: |
| i'm curious about their stability. |
I haven't gigged mine out yet but seems to be pretty stable regarding tuning, although I need to make some adjustments underneath.
As far as stability, my guitar wobbles bad when engaging the knee lever. If I crank the legs tight in front the mounting holes for the pedal rack doesn't line up....easy fix though, maybe a washer on the threads. Also I do have adjustable legs that fit.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 11:06 am
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yeah, i'm more concerned with the physical stability than the tuning. i figure if it is built with the same mechanics as the normal push pull it should stay in tune pretty well.
i've read that changing out the legs for adjustable ones and changing the pedal bar mounts improves stability. i'm wondering if you can end up with a guitar that stays put. |
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Larry Hopkins
From:
Lubbock Texas USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 11:43 am Black Rock 4x3
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Here’s mine !great tone stays in tune great stability
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,peavey renown 115,Vegas 400, Peavey envoy, peavy bandit 65 head,baby bloomer
2 -Nashville 400, Emmons SD-10 legrande lll ,Emmons Black Rock ,sho-bud pac a seat,,Jackson Madison 63; |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 11:52 am Re: Black Rock 4x3
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| Larry Hopkins wrote: |
Here’s mine !great tone stays in tune great stability
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Is that a student model? Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the endplates suggest it is not a GS-10.
EDIT: it's a "Black Rock". Is that considered a student model?
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 1:31 pm
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The one I had here was Stu Schulman's. It was identical to the red burst GS above. Paint flaked off if you looked at it too hard. The pins thru the legs for the pedal rack were a disaster with the one-piece legs because the lets were loose in the sockets and needed an extra 1/8 turn to tighten them which put the pins out of line.
So I upgraded the front legs with two piece legs. And I added two levers to bring it to 3 + 3. This guitar was so sweet! It sounded like a push pull and it weighed 3 1/2 pounds. Insane resonance for something with so little mass.
You definitely couldn't slam into the levers. The guitar would walk and you could even get it to buck if you had too heavy a touch on the levers.
I totally would have kept this guitar as a grab & go (with one hand) player if I were a 10 string player. It almost made me commit to relearning 10 strings. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Feb 2024 2:44 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
The one I had here was Stu Schulman's. It was identical to the red burst GS above. Paint flaked off if you looked at it too hard. The pins thru the legs for the pedal rack were a disaster with the one-piece legs because the lets were loose in the sockets and needed an extra 1/8 turn to tighten them which put the pins out of line.
So I upgraded the front legs with two piece legs. And I added two levers to bring it to 3 + 3. This guitar was so sweet! It sounded like a push pull and it weighed 3 1/2 pounds. Insane resonance for something with so little mass.
You definitely couldn't slam into the levers. The guitar would walk and you could even get it to buck if you had too heavy a touch on the levers.
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I haven't played many PSGs at all to compare (2 others that I can recall), but I have many other musical instruments and I know this GS is something special. It does just seem to ring out and resonate for whatever reason.
Mine doesn't walk around with lever use. The levers are smooth and the upgrades probably added enough extra weight to add stability. It does slightly shift to the right when I use the RKL and don't have hands on the instrument which only happens when tuning.
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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