Excel Superb U-12 - swapping E levers to left leg.

Christopher Hillman · From: Manchester, UK

Hey all,

I've just bought a Williams 400 U-12 which has its E levers on the left leg. I always liked this lever placement when I started out on a 10 string but for the last 14 years I've played U-12s with the E's on the Right leg.

My question is should I change my Excel U-12 (main pedal steel) to have E's on the left leg and re learn what I know? or change the Williams? I'm wondering if the split second reaction time needed in solo's or catching something last minute would suffer. Also wondering if in the long run it would be worth it for better volume control and better ergonomics?

The problem with swapping the Excel is it has these nylon bushes on the lower E's and they're buried far down in the Steel. I'm not sure how easy this is going to be to work on? I've read people saying they can strip when moving them...

Has anyone worked on an Excel Superb with these bushes and any advice for this specific situation?

Heres a thread on it: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=397037&highlight=excel

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm 100% committed to matching the setups on any & all of my steels as well as is possible. I happen to also be committed to lowering the E's on the right but I'm not selling that.
Changing the Williams will be easier than the Excel (apparently -- Williams, which I have, is easy and you present the Excel as difficult).

But if you're looking for life advice, set the guitar(s) how you want to play them, not how it's easiest to settle on. Short term inconvenience of the project will be far outweighed by hours and years of playing them how you want them. If you are decided on E's on the left.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Chris, as I think you know I own both and the Williams would be way easier to modify. The Excel is clever, but a bit of a rat's nest.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Christopher Hillman · From: Manchester, UK

Hey Jon and Ian. Thanks for replying. Ian, you are right the excel is clever and the engineering is incredible but a total rats nest... I decided to have a little play around though.

As Jon mentioned about setting up the Guitars right for you I've tried an experiment on the Excel. I've tried to make it so both left and right legs have E raise and Lower on them. Sound mad but it means I can use the new (to me) left leg and if by chance my brain tells me to use the right leg it wouldn't affect anything on the upcoming shows as I'm giging every week. Also, it means If I change my mind I dont have to change much back. Unfortunately I can't get the 4th string raise without disconnecting the original left leg (E) raise, not sure If I want to do this yet.
As I only really use the top string raise on my right and 2nd string lower, I only have to change a few bell cranks back.

I'm going to turn my attention to the Willaims now. The B6th side is still BJ's old set up (see my other post) so I'll make that the same as my Excel now.

I took lots of photos and wrote a lot of notes down about how the Excel levers work. The nylon bushes were ok in the end. Nothing stripped as other posts said.

Markus Mayerhofer · From: Vienna, Austria

I defenitely encourage you, to go for it!
I have 2 RKR and 2 LKL levers, one front and one rear lever.
I already swapped these levers a few months ago. Today, i moved the front RKR more forward towards the apron, since i felt totally incomfortable in reaching the rear levers just with a extensive body twist...too much to get accustomed to.
This meant a lot of fumbling and even the fabrication of a new lever attachement. Since the lever cranks on the Excel work as stops as well, a new one for the stop had to be installed. I made that with a minimum of removing other parts, a kind of open heart surgery, if you want....

After a lot of hesitation and postponement it's done now.
I recommend to record every step you're doing either by writing down or making photos.
Mark the location of cranks and pulls with a permanent marker...
Make your guitar to a perfect tool, which fits your body, you won't regret it.

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

I have a few of these...
You have to get those "upside-down" bell cranks out from up against the deck and swap those with the "right side up" bell cranks.

To get the upside down ones out, you might have to take apart the lever stop and rotate the cross rod to get the bell crank out sideways. Same for putting it in.

That's the easy part - hard part is now you have short rods with threads, but you need long rods with threads(or vice versa). And you'd prefer that the rods that go the regular right side up bell cranks was not threaded.

You can make rods, but threading a rod is tough.

I'm a E's on the left leg guy.

Also, let me say, that even if you had to completely de-rod the guitar to change the bell cranks, it's easy to put it back. I've done it twice. Wink

Christopher Hillman · From: Manchester, UK

Thanks for the info guys! I'm a bit worried to mess with the short, original RKR & RKL left yet as I feel like as soon as one of those rods is out it will be impossible to get it back in. Although If I want the 4th string E raise I will have to remove the RKL rod.

I did a session from home yesterday and used the E levers on the left leg it felt pretty intuitive but also kind of strange playing a guitar I've known for years with the E's on the right. I've got a show this weekend so I'm going to see how I get on there.

Also, I've ended re rodding my Williams to try sort some issues (theres another post forum thread about that) and I've ended up putting RkR E lowers on that to try and fix a tuning problem. It feels as right playing that Guitar with the E lever there so time will tell. I'll see how I get on ha!

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I've made a ton of changes to my Excels and getting the pull rods threaded back into those threaded plastic pieces is a piece of cake. On all of my Excels, the pull rod is slightly tapered on the end which helps in getting it seated into the plastic piece before threading it in. I did have to thread a few new rods and had no luck doing that by hand. My toolmaker threaded them on a CNC lathe.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

On the Excel Superb, the "under-cross-shaft" pulls are a God-sent wrapped in with barbwire! Very Happy

I have re-setup my first Superb from ground up several times, and modified so far 2 to paddle verticals. There is nothing one cannot do setup wise with these mechanical marvels.
Put typically, one rods from the the cross-shafts the closest to the changer on out. To shortcut away from a reversing mechanism Fuji makes use of his "under-cross-shaft"-pulls on RKR and in some cases on LKL too.
Evidently, as one has a guitar all rodded up, the sum of all rods crowd up the space right in front of the changer and to change something without ripping some or all our is a challenge. I have been able to it.
As you have probably already seen, the barrels the rods screw into in these positions, are made of nylon (very similar to the Sierra Crown and Session models) the hex tuning nut is glued to the rod and turns the ROD in and out the barrel for tuning. You unscrew that, you might have to learn to build ships in a bottle before being able to get the rod back into the barrel before wiggling it out of the bell crank while trying (after which you are DONE! and need a soothing session with psychologist Jordan Peterson for anger management).

I've used a fine "medical" plier to secure the nylon barrel from falling out side ways. It takes surgeon-calm hands, a good work stand (like the one, one can buy from this Forum) and the calm and solid pilot nerves of a Sullenberger. Only turning one rod out takes calm. You don't want to even only turn the barrel so that the threaded hole faces 90degrees away from your re-introduction. Then you switch lower for raises and try your way in VERY calmly... ALWAYS securing the barrel sideways so it will NOT work itself out of the bell crank. You might need a helper you can trust and isn't too near and dear to you, so you wouldn't regret having him/her shot after they let nylon barrel drop out.

So, it's EASY, really!

OR, even easier: learn to play 2 different setups... Maurice Anderson spent his live playing two quite differently setup universal guitars and in his later years even moved many of his main pedal changes up to levers.

Beware what you wish for!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________

Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Markus Mayerhofer · From: Vienna, Austria

I had to swap LKL levers on that kind of an reversed cross-shaft. A small stripe of duct tape, wrapped around the crank helped me to keep these loose barrels in place....

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: