Low E string on SD-11

Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

Here is an interesting topic. (I hope).

I just picked up a SD-11 ZB Custom. I know Tom Brumley played 11 string guitars for a long time and wondered if anyone would point out some of the interesting ideas this extra string can be used for?

Examples of Toms playing or any licks that captured your fancy... Thanks in advance

Here is a photo of the old girl shortly after arrival...

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

My guess is that Mr. Brumley used the low E on string 11 the same way 12-stringers use their low E (on string 12), mostly as a low root for “no pedals” and a low 5th for AB. There were no changes on his string 11, just as there are none on string 12 of many S12 E9 setups.

If you want to know more about the Tom Brumley SD11 copedent and how he used it:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=354207&sid=9e851e3b368dd88691f2b6583c516af6

Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

Justin Shaw · From: Ontario, Canada

It's nice to have an E that's doesn't lower with the other 2 E strings. It gives an extra resolution and of course the Emaj7. Also changes on large gauge strings tend to be stiffer, so if you do want to have Eb, F changes on that low E you might want to put them on pedals, like this Sierra 12 copedent https://b0b.com/tunings/sierra.html. It's worth considering leaving the lowest E without any changes at all.

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I once read somewhere that Tom used that lower string to play Don Rich like fills when Don was singing harmony.
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2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I have an S-11 RusLer tuned to E-9th with the low E note 11 strimg. I chose that tuning because of Tom Brumley.
I use that low E for rock and roll / blues vamps. Also for low end power type chords.
I tried putting changes on it Ike lowering to Eb and raising it to F, but, I found that it didn't sound very good to me. So, I left to just a low E. it is a .068 guage string BTW.

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

You could also choose to put an A on the bottom for the root of your pedals down position instead of an E. I have an A for string 11(with no raises or lowers) on my extended E9 and I use it a lot more frequently than string 12 E. Most of the time I avoid going too low as it clashes with the bass or left hand of the piano.
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

I drop the low E to C# on LKL (raising the E's to F).
So with A pedal & LKL I get a C# chord with the root on #11.

... see my next post below... Embarassed

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"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

Thanks for all the informative responses. Lots of good ideas and thoughts. It’s a new option on E9th that I had never considered. This is fun!

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

You could also lose string 9D, and move the B string up a slot in its place. This would give you room for a G# on 10 and a low E on string 11.

Put the D on a lever ( to raise +++B or lower --E ) so you can still get the E9 stuff.
The G# can hook up to the B pedal and you have a ton of harmonic possibilities.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

9B-10G#-11E is the 9-10-11 on Jeff Newman's Universal tuning with B on KL to D for E9th. With E's 4-8 would give you a 11 string Universal B6th tuning.

I read somewhere or heard Mr. Brumley in a interview explained, He used the 11th string for fills When Don Rich was singing harmony.

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Here's the setup on my 11 string ZB...

In my earlier post I forgot to mention that I ditched the #9 D string. So I have 1-3-5-1 on the bottom 4 strings like Andrew says.

And dropping #11 E to C# on LKL + A pedal, gets you a great E chord at the 3rd fret. E - B - E - G# - A - B - E...
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"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

More great ideas, thanks guys.

Eric, do you have a photo of your LKL? I am curious how you added the 3rd pull for the E-C# change. Sounds like a good way to go, sorta a boo-wah pedal on E9th.

Mike D

John Hyland · From: South Australia

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Yes, works well on 10 strings for sure.
Another variation on that approach, could be to have that low G# on string 10 hook up to the B pedal, but actually lower it to G natural...
Zane Beck had something like this going on with the lowest G# on his E13 set up.
It would create a lot of Gmajor / Em voicings..
Considering that E9 generally has just the 2 G#s -> A, I wouldn't think there'd be an issue living without the 3rd one below.
I have 3 G#-A pulls on the B pedal ( 10 string E9/B6 ). I haven't tried the G natural approach on string 10. Maybe others have who play ext e9 or u12.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Regarding the comment on eliminating the D string as a “no-brainer”, I brainlessly disagree. I suggest you play your new guitar as is for while and then decide where you want to go with changes to it.

Justin Shaw · From: Ontario, Canada

I highly recommend keeping the D string as well. If you don't want that I'd recommend trying C# with a change to get it back to D at will. It's almost unbelievable how useful having D is.

Eric Dahlhoff · From: Point Arena, California

Mike, I have the E - C# lower on it's own adjustable thumb screw (I love how practical Zane Beck was with parts!)
This allows balancing the yoke for strings 4 & 8 first, then adjusting the pull for 11 to match.

I lower string 8 to D with RKR (see chart in earlier post)

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"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan)

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

Tom Brumley did indeed mimic Don Rich's low E-string licks on certain songs, Act Naturally for sure. when Don sings on the choruses, Tom comes in with those parts: https://youtu.be/gUGc5hANR3U?si=XLrHscg0YZpElcYR

Al Perkins also played an 11-string ZB Custom, check out: Ooh Las Vegas by Gram Parsons. he plays those low string backup licks throughout the song and his solo is one of my all-time favorites. James Burton played guitar, his opening lick is also legendary but he's not really heard much aside from the intro and outro
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Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

Thanks for the info Eric. Looks like a nice way to add a 3rd pull on a standard ZB knee lever. Smile

Hey Scott, now you're talking about what I am really interested in. Using the bottom 4 strings to play the tele style guitar parts .

I never knew Al Perkins was playing that open string riff on a 11 string ZB. In my band, I always played the higher part, and the guitar player played that part on his tele. So that explains who played what on Grams recording... Thanks!

Yeah, I am a D-10 player and I have no need or interest to try and create a U-11 tuning, though for some, the Universal tuning has been their go to.

Thanks all, I am leaving the tuning just as it is, it's a fun guitar with the added low E string to play around with.

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