Upper Register Clarity

Stephen Pfannkuche · From: Georgia, USA

First post here. As a brand new pedal steel player, let me first say thanks to everyone here for providing wonderful knowledge and resources for those of us just starting out on the pedal steel journey.

Question: It's taken me a while, but I am starting to get a decent-sounding tone while playing anywhere in the first 12 fret positions. However, as I move above the 12th fret, the sound starts to get very "muddy," and I seem to lose all of the individual string clarity that I am able to get lower on the fretboard. Any guesses as to what I may be doing wrong here?

I am preparing to play with a band for the first time in a couple of weeks, so I am trying to get this issue cleared up.

Quick Note: While I am new at the pedal steel, I have been playing guitar, including slide guitar, for over two decades, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance for your help!

D. Scheindlin · From: Texas, USA

Does your guitar have a humbucker or single coil? My limited experience is that it’s more of an issue with humbuckers. Making sure your picking hand is as close to the changer end as possible can help brighten things a bit. That’s all I’ve got.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Certainly you need to pick closer to the bridge as you move up the frets, but then you probably know that from playing other guitars. You also need to be very accurate with your bar placement. The higher you go the more important it becomes to keep the bar at right angles to the strings, and it's possible that a lack of clarity may be partly down to imperfect intonation.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

When you go down in HUEY LAND, Below the 12th fret. Everything has to be right. Pickup, Amp and Cables.

When I changed amps a 2 or 3 years ago, To a Quilter Tone Block 202, I had to also go to heavier cables. With other amps I had used George L .155 cables for years. With the TB 202, The strings below fret 12 sounded muddy. I went to D'Addario .240 cables and the muddy was gone.

May want to try different cables for a start.
Some say, "Even shorter/longer cables will change tone below the 12th fret".

Good Luck in finding the sound you want. Happy steelin.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

When I asked the same question shortly after I started playing, somebody told me to treat the area above the 12th fret almost like it’s a different instrument in regard to sustain and clarity. You have to make adjustments in both picking and bar hand technique. As far as amp EQ settings, a compromise must be met between what sounds good in the upper and lower registers.

I’m sure there is some science in choosing cables. I don’t spend much time on it, just get something from a name I can pretty well trust. Here’s a discussion on it:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=367379&sid=3fea0bddaded3a62578e809a773f2857

One last thing, disconnect everything else in your signal chain - including the volume pedal - and go straight into the amp from your guitar. Play all over the neck. Dial in your amp’s EQ. This is how to get a baseline for your tone.

Next, add in your volume pedal. You might be shocked at how much high end a volume pedal can roll off your tone. I sure as heck was! Then, one at a time, add whatever is in the rest of your chain. Hopefully this way you’ll find what’s mucking it up in Hueyland.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I don't think pickups or cables or eq settings have anything to do with it. Find a guy who plays well to play your guitar and I'll bet it sounds great up there.

It's gonna be in your picking and bar technique. There is a different sort of finesse that you need in the higher registers and there are no tricks or shortcuts.

I'll take a few minutes and do a quick zoom type call and show you what I mean. Go ahead and get in touch if you want.
_________________
Bob

Mitch Ellis · From: Collins, Mississippi USA

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I agree with Fred that on any instrument as you ascend you reach a point above the treeline where strange things start to happen. On string instruments your fingers get fatter. On brass the available notes get so close together that you're throwing darts blindfold. On woodwinds the fingerings become too complex for an ordinary human brain.

But don't we love a challenge. At least on steel the pedalling stays the same! Smile

_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

To me, "muddy" is a tone-term. If anything, the tone should get sharper as you move up the neck. But you must realize that the harmonic content is different up there in "Hughey-Land", and that is what you may be sensing.

Bob's right. Start with the basics, and add nothing but years of practice. Steel, volume pedal, amp. The recording below uses an Emmons steel, single-coil pickups, pot-pedal, and tube amp; that's it! The clarity of Weldon's harmonics @1:52 are frightening, but I have no doubt that it wouldn't have sounded like that with me playing his rig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVvVwCqmxik

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Donny, your comment about harmonic content is a very observant and pertinent detail.

The common thread in this discussion so far is “It’s in the hands”, which is more or less the accepted conventional wisdom when it comes to anything regarding steel guitar tone. Usually the only qualifier that ever gets any consideration is the preface “All else being equal”. I believe that’s fair enough and worth mentioning, especially for someone new to the instrument.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Stephen is not new to knob turning, Bob. The point is taken, though, that a lot of basic right and left hand issues can even be taken care of unplugged. It’s just more fun to do with amplification properly dialed in, plus the addition of a volume pedal. He’s got gigs coming up in a few weeks, so he doesn’t have years of “seat time” to try to put an act together.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I think it bears mentioning that a beginner has far too much to master when learning to play this thing to obsess over "tone". Don't misunderstand me, tone is important; but I feel it's something to worry about only after you've developed a modicum of tuning and playing skills. If you're out of tune, playing pitchy or without proper blocking, or flubbing your volume pedal or pedal work, that's going to be noticed far more than your tone. Tone is such a personal thing, anyway, and what you're hearing as displeasing might be something that someone else likes. Winking

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

After ten years of tackling the Beast, I still leave my tone controls more or less flat, using them only to correct for unusual acoustics, and I like the sound I get. I change the reverb and other effects to suit the song, but generally not the tone.

Although the OP is an experienced guitarist, there aren't any transferable skills - but I would urge him to stick with it ! Smile

_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Stephen Pfannkuche · From: Georgia, USA

Wow this place is awesome! So much solid advice from so many people. Thank y'all so much!

Unfortunately, a cold kept me away from the guitar all weekend, so I haven't gotten to try anything out yet.

I hadn't really considered that the high register would be so different in so many ways from the lower register, but, in retrospect, of course it is! I have been spending all my time learning chords, scales, etc on the lower register, so I think I just need to start devoting equal time to playing up high. It's almost certainly intonation issues.

Again, really appreciate everyone chiming in!

Michael Sawyer · From: North Carolina, USA

Above the 12th fret,i stay away from 3 note chords.
1 and 2 note stuff works better for me.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Good advice. Even two notes require extreme care, so why stack the odds?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Another phenomenon you encounter at the 12th fret is harmonics as this is the point where the string reaches it's octave.

Here, it's very important that you mute the strings behind the bar with your trailing fingers to eliminate those unwanted harmonics. Spread those fingers out nicely behind the bar. This is something that took me years and a good friend's observation and advice to discover.

Frets get skinny up there, they're hard to see and it takes a lot of practice.

Jim Robbins · From: Ontario, Canada

Amp up, vp down.

Justin Shaw · From: Ontario, Canada

Part of the reason it takes so much practice is that as you go up the neck your left hand is reaching across your body with the bar. This makes it very easy and natural to accidentally rotate the bar so that it's no longer directly over a fret. Moreover the frets are close together, so if you do get it wrong a little bit it can sound way off. If you're off by 1/16 of an inch at fret 8 it may not be the end of the world, but at fret 20 it will sound much worse.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic