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Topic: I want to replicate this open d tuning , but for 8 string. |
Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 22 Oct 2023 3:53 pm |
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https://youtu.be/KQt_XLVIYsI?si=qwiTuEGkC1FE4F8w
That's the sound/tonality I'm going after.
Suggestions on how to do that? I know theoretically I can do any chord etc with c6 or a6 or whatever but I *really* love that open d tuning. If y'all could suggest an 8 string variant and the requisite string gauges, I'll love you forever. Thank y'all! |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 9:27 am
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Why not just use six-strings (remove strings seven and eight) and get used to the DADF#AD tuning…..and then if you feel the need, add whatever , a 6 or flat 7, or flat three, or…?
Mike Neer, master of the 8 string Clinesmith, showed us recently some beautiful C6 work on his Clinesmith, where he simply removed strings 7 & 8.
Here’s the thread
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=394036
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 10:37 am
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6th's sound bad when used in some settings... like bluegrass, or rock. If you like low-bass D then you can always just extend it. You can put a 3rd in the bass course... then put a 3rd above the first string... or you could put a 3rd and 5th above the first string. That A would be getting pretty tight, even at .007, and would not sound good.
Most folks just get a good 6-string and put it in low-bass D. I've got a Weissenborn and a Supro in it, they rock! Not sure why you're bend on 8 strings... just buy a few more guitars, the wife will understand.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 1:17 pm
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
Why not just use six-strings (remove strings seven and eight) and get used to the DADF#AD tuning…..and then if you feel the need, add whatever , a 6 or flat 7, or flat three, or…?
Mike Neer, master of the 8 string Clinesmith, showed us recently some beautiful C6 work on his Clinesmith, where he simply removed strings 7 & 8.
Here’s the thread
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=394036 |
Thank y'all. @Brooks and @Stephen. I appreciate the input! I guess I was trying to use 8 strings, because well, my lap steel is 8 strings. Taking two off seems wrong somehow lol. I'll probably buy a 6 string at some point, but I play multiple instruments, own a bunch and I'm trying to limit spending.
Mr Volk (he of the amazing instruction books) gave me suggestions too.
"tuned down to D from his E) …
(low to high) A, D, A. D. F#, A, C, D
You could also extended standard Open D ….
D, A, D, A, D, F#, A, D
E7 tuning is another option ….
E, G#, B, E, G#, B, D, E"
So I'ma take it all in and try to figure it out. Thank y'all again! |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 1:51 pm
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| Teddy Ray Bullard II wrote: |
| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
Why not just use six-strings (remove strings seven and eight) and get used to the DADF#AD tuning…..and then if you feel the need, add whatever , a 6 or flat 7, or flat three, or…?
Mike Neer, master of the 8 string Clinesmith, showed us recently some beautiful C6 work on his Clinesmith, where he simply removed strings 7 & 8.
Here’s the thread
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=394036 |
… I guess I was trying to use 8 strings, because well, my lap steel is 8 strings. Taking two off seems wrong somehow lol.
! |
I use to think that too. OTH, it’s nice to know that your 8-string has utility of being both an 8 or a 6. And, I figure if it’s good enough for Mike Neer (and Keith Richards) to remove strings, who am I to argue 😎
And you know, in sailing you shouldn't have a lot of sails up in strong winds as this can make the sailboat to capsize. So you take some down.
Enjoy navigating open D ! 😉
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 1:59 pm
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| You're exactly right! I'm still green/ignorant, so I appreciate the input very much! |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 3:07 pm
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I'm a big fan of open D. I have it on all three of my instruments. The big power chord (D A D) on the bottom is great. My suggestion is to double up the low and the high D's. Leave the middle 6 strings in standard open D. It will only enhance the big bottom end of the power chord and the high D won't get in your way even if you rarely use it. You can also put an F on top (tuned to a half step down from the F#) and get your minor chord that way.
Good luck and enjoy!
Karlis |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 3:48 pm
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| One thing to keep in mind, especially if you are going to extend down to some fairly large gauged strings, is to make sure you don't introduce buzz on the lower frets because one gauge string is significantly fatter than the next strings over. It could involve regauging the nut. |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 6:07 pm
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I have used D7 tuning:
(High to low)
D
A
F#
D
C
A
F#
D
This tuning is based on Santo Farina's E7 tuning - droped down a step.
What is the scale of your 8 string?
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 8:47 pm
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| Karlis Abolins wrote: |
I'm a big fan of open D. I have it on all three of my instruments. The big power chord (D A D) on the bottom is great. My suggestion is to double up the low and the high D's. Leave the middle 6 strings in standard open D. It will only enhance the big bottom end of the power chord and the high D won't get in your way even if you rarely use it. You can also put an F on top (tuned to a half step down from the F#) and get your minor chord that way.
Good luck and enjoy!
Karlis |
thank you sir. Can you clarify for me, like the tuning low to high? (Sorry I'm dumb) 8 strings. |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 8:49 pm
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| Tony Oresteen wrote: |
I have used D7 tuning:
(High to low)
D
A
F#
D
C
A
F#
D
This tuning is based on Santo Farina's E7 tuning - droped down a step.
What is the scale of your 8 string? |
it's 23.5 sir. It's a melbert. Do you have any song snippets or recording of you noodling in that tuning? I'd love to hear it if so! |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 8:59 pm
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| One thing to keep in mind, especially if you are going to extend down to some fairly large gauged strings, is to make sure you don't introduce buzz on the lower frets because one gauge string is significantly fatter than the next strings over. It could involve regauging the nut. |
Yessir, hadn't thought of that. I appreciate you sir! |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 23 Oct 2023 10:18 pm
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Have you considered reentrant strings?
D or …….. D
A ………... A
F# ……… . F#
D ………... D
A ………… A
F# ….……. D
D …………. a
b ……….… b
You lose the big DAD power chord with the first on, but gain B minor and Bm7
The second brings back the power chord but has awkward dual reentrant strings.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 4:02 am
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I’d try (low to hi):
DF#ADF#ADF#. It is a very vanilla major chord but a rich one and still useful. You want that “power chord”? Pinch 8,6,5.
String gauges something like 59,56,48,36,28w,20p,16p,13p
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 6:19 am
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My post for doubling the low and high strings gives you (low to high) D D A D F# A D D.
If you want a minor, it is D D A D F# A D F. The high F is a half step lower than the F#.
Karlis |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 8:52 am
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Teddy,
I don't have a recording sorry.
I put together a D7 string set for your 23.5" scale. When I gauge out a set of strings for a lap steel guitar, I keep the pull in pounds between 26 to 30 pounds of pull per string. You might like a harder feeling set (use bigger strings) or a softer feeling set (use lighter strings).
D7 8 String Guitar (High to Low) 23.5" Scale
Note___Gauge______#Pull
D4_____0.015p_____27.2
A3_____0.020p_____27.0
F#3____0.024p_____27.5
D3_____0.034w_____28.6
C3_____0.038w_____27.5
A2_____0.046w_____27.7
F#2____0.056w_____29.5
D2_____0.070w_____28.4
Total pull is 223.3 pounds of pull. Average pull per string is 27.9 pounds of pull.
The numbers next to the notes indicate which OCTAVE the note is in. "p" means a plain string, 'w" means a wound string.
To calculate the pull, I used Stringjoy's on-line calculator.
https://tension.stringjoy.com/
I buy single strings for my lap steels from www.juststrings.com. For custom sets like this I buy their house brand mostly with D'Addario & Ernie Ball filling in as needed. For plain strings I get "Plain Steel Strings", wound strings I get "Nickle Wound Steel Strings". I usually buy 6 sets of a tuning at a time - one to go on the guitar right away and 5 spare sets to have on hand. You may like other types of strings or get fewer spare sets but this is a good place to start.
I like buying single strings - if I end up not liking a tuning I put strings into my single string inventoy tray to use in different tuning sets. You will end up with spare strings, they are like money in the bank.
DISCLOSURE: I am only a customer of Just Strings; I have no other relationship with them. I have used them since 2001ish.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 1:39 pm
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
Have you considered reentrant strings?
D or …….. D
A ………... A
F# ……… . F#
D ………... D
A ………… A
F# ….……. D
D …………. a
b ……….… b
You lose the big DAD power chord with the first on, but gain B minor and Bm7
The second brings back the power chord but has awkward dual reentrant strings. |
i haven't but I'm a rookie, and very ignorant still ! I just know I love that weird modal /ambient sound that try gets in that video I linked. I'm loving all this info. Thank you sir! |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 1:40 pm
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| K Maul wrote: |
I’d try (low to hi):
DF#ADF#ADF#. It is a very vanilla major chord but a rich one and still useful. You want that “power chord”? Pinch 8,6,5.
String gauges something like 59,56,48,36,28w,20p,16p,13p |
Thank you sir! I'm replicating these tunings on my acoustic to see which one I favor but thank you so much! |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 1:41 pm
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| Karlis Abolins wrote: |
My post for doubling the low and high strings gives you (low to high) D D A D F# A D D.
If you want a minor, it is D D A D F# A D F. The high F is a half step lower than the F#.
Karlis |
Thank you sir! That sound he's getting in that linked video. That "unresolved " or ethereal sound when he's strumming, I just love that. I'm trying all suggestions. Yall Rock! |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 1:48 pm
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| Tony Oresteen wrote: |
Teddy,
I don't have a recording sorry.
I put together a D7 string set for your 23.5" scale. When I gauge out a set of strings for a lap steel guitar, I keep the pull in pounds between 26 to 30 pounds of pull per string. You might like a harder feeling set (use bigger strings) or a softer feeling set (use lighter strings).
D7 8 String Guitar (High to Low) 23.5" Scale
Note___Gauge______#Pull
D4_____0.015p_____27.2
A3_____0.020p_____27.0
F#3____0.024p_____27.5
D3_____0.034w_____28.6
C3_____0.038w_____27.5
A2_____0.046w_____27.7
F#2____0.056w_____29.5
D2_____0.070w_____28.4
Total pull is 223.3 pounds of pull. Average pull per string is 27.9 pounds of pull.
The numbers next to the notes indicate which OCTAVE the note is in. "p" means a plain string, 'w" means a wound string.
To calculate the pull, I used Stringjoy's on-line calculator.
https://tension.stringjoy.com/
I buy single strings for my lap steels from www.juststrings.com. For custom sets like this I buy their house brand mostly with D'Addario & Ernie Ball filling in as needed. For plain strings I get "Plain Steel Strings", wound strings I get "Nickle Wound Steel Strings". I usually buy 6 sets of a tuning at a time - one to go on the guitar right away and 5 spare sets to have on hand. You may like other types of strings or get fewer spare sets but this is a good place to start.
I like buying single strings - if I end up not liking a tuning I put strings into my single string inventoy tray to use in different tuning sets. You will end up with spare strings, they are like money in the bank.
DISCLOSURE: I am only a customer of Just Strings; I have no other relationship with them. I have used them since 2001ish. |
thank you so much sir !!!! I appreciate you a great deal. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 24 Oct 2023 8:20 pm
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I also recommend Tony’s tuning but I disagree with balanced tension being the goal.
Those bass strings are way too heavy and would sound hollow and plinky, especially at higher positions.
70 gauge D string is way too big, low strings always have lower tension than higher and mid strings.
Look at tensions in bass guitar sets. It’s that way for a reason!
Another good option would be that same tuning with a high F# on top instead of in the bass. |
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Teddy Ray Bullard II
From:
Pocatello, Idaho
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Posted 25 Oct 2023 10:13 am
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| Joe A. Roberts wrote: |
I also recommend Tony’s tuning but I disagree with balanced tension being the goal.
Those bass strings are way too heavy and would sound hollow and plinky, especially at higher positions.
70 gauge D string is way too big, low strings always have lower tension than higher and mid strings.
Look at tensions in bass guitar sets. It’s that way for a reason!
Another good option would be that same tuning with a high F# on top instead of in the bass. |
Yessir thank you. What gauges would you recommend? I assume a regular 6 string set (like in the video I posted) would work plus an additional couple strings on the high end?(one being an f#) ? |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2023 1:23 am
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| Joe A. Roberts wrote: |
I also recommend Tony’s tuning but I disagree with balanced tension being the goal.
Those bass strings are way too heavy and would sound hollow and plinky, especially at higher positions.
70 gauge D string is way too big, low strings always have lower tension than higher and mid strings.
Look at tensions in bass guitar sets. It’s that way for a reason!
Another good option would be that same tuning with a high F# on top instead of in the bass. |
Joe,
I disagree. Pedal Steel guitars 24.0" scale C6 necks have for the two lowest strings:
9 F 0.054w Wound
10 C 0.070w Wound
I have a Sho-Bud psg with C6 tuning and a Marlen D10 with the rear neck tuned to C6 and the above bass strings sound just fine.
No one would ever say that these strings "...would sound hollow and plinky, especially at higher positions...."
Using thin strings in the bass causes difficulty in baring. One side of the neck is soft and the other side is hard. Balanced tension makes baring the same across the neck.
A real issue with large strings in the bass is that some tuners have a small string holes and 0.070 size strings will not fit. My 8 String Jackson armpit guitar (25.5" scale) came with a 0.064 8th string. It is tuned to E1 which to get a normal tension of 17.5 lbs needed a 0.090 string. I had to pull the tuner and drill it out so that a 0.090 would fit. Jackson shipped the guitar with a 0.064 string as that was the largest string that would fit, not what was needed. When I spoke with Jackson, they admitted that the hole was too small and suggested that I drill it out. I did and it has been fine since I bought & modded it in 2017.
Fender shipped the 4th neck of the Stringmaster Quads (both Mark 1 & Mark 2 Stringmasters) with tuners that were drilled out for larger strings as the 4th neck was considered the baritone neck.
In the end though, it is up to the OP to decide what sounds best & plays best to his ears & hands, not what you or I think.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 2 Nov 2023 8:43 am
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The thing about that open D tuning in my mind, is its simplicity. Power chord on bottom, triad on top.
Anything you add to that tuning is going to be both additive and subtractive. Additive in that you get more options (reentrants, sixth options, b7, 9ths, etc, whatever), subtractive in that part of its appeal is how simple it is, its a very "pure" tuning that you can strum all day without accidentally landing on something discordant, or Hawaiian sounding ("not that there's anything wrong with that!"), etc.
So it's an entirely up-to-you sort of thing, you have to first answer "what do I want to get out of two more strings"? Chordal options? Then yeah, there's lots of things you can add (but the caveat is as above...you move away from a simple triad tuning). You can even just add more drone strings (double up a string or two) to fatten things up. Or just leave the strings off and add them only after you know the answer to that question...what, if anything, do you want in addition to the base open D tuning. As this thread attests, there's lots of things you can add...but if what drew you to this tuning was the sound Troy is doing so much of with that open strumming feel...I would consider not overcomplicating it at first, because half of what the appeal of open D is, is what it leaves out, not what it includes, I think!
Just my 2c, good luck!
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Joe Cook
From:
Lake Osoyoos, WA
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Posted 3 Nov 2023 6:45 am
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| Well said, Nic! |
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