lowering strings 6 and 3 a half step to make minors

John French · From: Louisiana, USA

I have been looking at changing my pedals and levers to
match what I think I want to do. The first major change is to lower string 3 and 6 a half step. This would allow me to
play minors so much easier because of the way I think. In
addition you can get that bluesy sound of sliding from a flat 3rd to the 3rd. I don't see anyone with this set up. I know there must be a reason. Can please tell me what I am missing.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I like and have that change.
Traditionally there are several other methods of playing minors.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I do. I just don't lower the high 3rd.

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Another way to get the same sound is to raise string 4 & 5 a half tone, and slide back one fret. That’s easy if you’re good at half-pedaling the 5th (along with the “E” raise), and even easier if you’re lowering the 5th 1/2 tone with a lever so you can split the “A” pedal.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I would just go with the G#-to-G.
You can slam that lever and be dead on.
I think the reason this change gets Pa-Pood so much by Steel Players is that it's a guitar-player-knowedge based change.
I think it's great.
I also like Rickys take on it, in his copedant.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

A client brought a new-to-him guitar to me for a set-up. It had a zero pedal that was doing something that neither of us cared for. What I gave him on the zero was 3rd string G# > G and 6th string G# > A (duplicating the B pedal but...with a split-tuned knee lever lowering 6 a full step you can still get your G).
I love it. Not only can you get your simple minor chord. With 0 + A pedal you get a clean 7th chord on 3-4-5-6.
This is an irrelevant diversion since nobody asked about zero pedals but I just wanted to mention it.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I've had that change on my RKR for as long as I can remember, on all 3 G# strings. On some of them I don't lower the high G# string because the pull is too long/stiff.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Quite a few players do lower 6 from G#=>G. I think it's a bit less common to see G#=>G on string 3. But I don't see any reason not to do it, with the caveat that it generally takes, relatively speaking, a longer or stiffer throw to lower that thin G# string, as Earnest mentions. I imagine there are some guitars that have trouble with that. I think changing the typical 0.011 gauge to .012 gauge should help decrease the throw required, at the expense of a bit more force required to activate the change. Or course, one can also change the leverage by using a higher (away from the body) bellcrank hole, if available, to lower the throw and stiffen the change.

At least on string 6, I prefer to lower G#=>F#, which gives a lot of useful combinations - of course, F# is available on string 7, but for me it's also about the travel to the note. With this approach, G is obtained by splitting with the B pedal G#=>A. There are two methods achieve that. The first uses split tuning screws - the split change is first tuned to G, which causes the full G#=>F# change to be flat. Then the split tuning screw is tightened to give a maximum lower at F#. The second method is similar, but uses a separate pull on the string to raise the flat F# when the G#=>F# lever is fully engaged.

That full G#=>F# lower is tough on string 3, but I was able to get it on my Zum D10 if I put just those two changes on the lever. But in the end, I wound up not using it that much and removed it to add another C6 change on that lever.

Anyway - as Donny says, there are lots of ways to do things. Everything is a compromise, unless you just keep on adding pedals and/or levers.

John French · From: Louisiana, USA

Thank you for all the quick replies. It boggles my mind how many ways you can do something with this instrument. I come at this from playing the dobro and the blues that is why i was so interested in the half step drop in string 3 and six. I believe I will drop string 6 but leave 3 alone. I like Ricky's set up because it has a lot of what i wanted to do. I have a msa ssII D10 with 5 petals and four knee levers so I should be able to do the things i want. Thanks so much again.

Justin Shaw · From: Ontario, Canada

G#->G is also useful elsewhere on the neck, like at -3 and +2.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Williams guitars puts this (Dave's way) on their standard E9 copedent...a split of string 6 G#->F# on RKL and G#->A on B pedal, with a split rod to make it perfect (raise the resulting flat G#->F# note).
So RKL+B=G#->G, no extra change needed...
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Bruce Blackburn · From: Nashville, Tennessee

That is how I do it on my Pro lite. Full step lower and spit to a half step with the B pedal
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

The "Split Method" of lowering string-6 a full-step then raising it back up a half-step, doesn't work on Push Pulls.
I have two Push Pulls so I lower G#'s a half step.
On an Excel, you can have both if you want.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I've had G# to G (on string 6 only) for 40+ years. I too played guitar before pedal steel and that change made sense to me.

I use that change to play the first part of the melody of "Ghost Riders in the Sky": Am on fret 5. It also makes an eerie sounding minor 9th chord. Strum strings 8,7,6,5 with the lever engaged. I don't use that change as much as I did early on though. I find the other minor chord positions more satisfying, in general.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have it on P4 on my D10: but I also lower the 9th to C#.

Initially, I only lowered the 6th to G but soon added the 3rd. Occasionally, lowering the high one causes a problem but that pedal gives me a minor 9th chord across the strings (and a m7b5).

It's also a nice A9th at the zero fret.

As for using it for the 4-minor, I rarely do that; I'm accustomed to finding the minor equivalent three frets up.

PS: I have also incorporated that pedal into my 12-string D13th; it works a treat.
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Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

As an alternative, I have a knee that raises 1 and 7 to G. I don’t have experience to compare it to lowering the G#s, but it gets me my minors.
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