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Topic: Lap steel tip #4: the importance of simple diatonic harmony |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 7 Oct 2023 4:09 pm |
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Just a little unsolicited advice. I'm not really sure who needs to hear this.
This is what I consider to be 'ground zero' in music. When I was a kid I used to think I was the only one who didn't know it, and so I got some books out from the library.
https://youtu.be/CTTiR6MPY8g
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2023 8:00 pm
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Hey Mike, I’m always surprised at how many musicians I run into who don’t know this. Many seem like they don’t want to know this. I have a friend who thinks it’ll get in the way of his creativity!
The light bulb went off for me a few years back when I connected the staff and the WWHWWWH steps of the diatonic scale on the staff and then overlayed that in my mind with the chord steps of I ii iii IV V vi vii dim. Three notes stacked on the lines, three notes stacked on the spaces, three notes stacked on the lines, etc, etc.
Add to that the purpose of the different keys to keep the diatonic scale steps the same WWHWWWH depending on where you start on the 1 or root and you’ve just unlocked a ton of understanding of how music works. I can learn new songs very quickly. I can communicate effectively in a jam setting with other musicians, and generally solo better or at least offer things more interesting.
Edited to add: for me thinking chordal in scale degrees has allowed me to hear chord changes (at least in pop/rock/country) and generally learn a songs chords very quickly by ear. I’m not much of a jazz guy so not sure I could do that with jazz so much. Lots of “color” chords! |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 8 Oct 2023 6:41 am
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| Mike, I really couldn't hear the your voice very well, even cranked up. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 8 Oct 2023 7:09 am
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Great video Mike. I turned it up a bit and could hear you fine. Funny, I tried to explain this to my wife who took lessons for years and years on piano and can play almost any written piece of music with a little practice. She was dumbfounded and asked why no one ever taught that to her. This should be taught day one! I guess a lot of classical teachers view this as more in relating to composing, so they think it's not important??
My friend in high school who plays jazz bass explained this to me and it is the single most helpful thing I have ever learned about music. I am still trying to fully grasp it! Thanks for posting this!
Last edited by Tim Toberer on 8 Oct 2023 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Samuel Phillippe
From:
Douglas Michigan, USA
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Posted 8 Oct 2023 7:14 am
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Not having the knowledge of reading/writing music, I found it interesting that I find myself playing this way on some songs.....every third note, hmm, not knowing music, I now learned what I was doing.
Thanks Mike
Sam |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Oct 2023 11:09 am
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A lot of times I’m just practicing or focusing on some material for a lesson and I just feel like making a little video like this. It helps me a lot to verbalize these things. So I apologize for the lousy quality—I just don’t put much prep into it. I guess I am at that stage where I am less concerned about those things and just wanting to get to the point. Being that I am sort of soft spoken and talk a lot, I will make sure the audio is clearer next time.
Brian, what you said is absolutely true. Once I had a solid grasp of this, now we’re talking 1970s, I could listening to the radio and pretty much figure out tunes on the fly just by being able to hear the function of the chords and paying close attention to things that sounded outside of the tonality. It’s really basic stuff that you could learn in about 6 months and then continue to expand on. I highly recommend the Alfred’s Essentials of Music Theory workbooks, specifically Books 2 and 3. I went through a similar series in high school Music Theory classes and by finishing all 6 or 7 volumes, I had all the tools to be able to contribute to many musical situations on a lot of levels.
Tim, in doing a lot of research into methods classical pianists use to help them memorize complex pieces, I learned that there are classical pianists that are not even aware of the harmony they are playing or even the chords. Learning the basic harmony is helpful to remembering music, because you have the ability navigate your way out of lapses of memory simply by knowing where things are moving to.
More importantly, I feel like having that basic harmonic knowledge enabled me to listen to and appreciate more complex music and have a little bit of an understanding and appreciation for it and to continue to expand my own boundaries.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 11 Oct 2023 5:15 am
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I started working on a volume on Diatonic Triads, and this page relates directly to the root position triads I played in the video. You will find that the slants are manageable with a little practice.
I should have Volume 1 finished in a few weeks. It will be geared towards C6 and will encompass all inversions of diatonic triads in every key. Subsequent volumes will dive more deeply into harmony and the usage in improvisation, etc.
Show of hands: Who would be interested in printed books? Probably looking at 50 wire bound pages and a price of ~$15-20.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Levi Gemmell
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 11 Oct 2023 1:09 pm
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Dead keen, Mike - loved Steelin' Scales & Modes and Bebop Lap Steel Guitar. Count me in!
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Commodore S-8
John Allison S-8
JB Frypan S-8
Sho~Bud LDG SD-10
1966 Fender Super Reverb |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2023 8:57 pm
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I’m in.
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A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Michael French
From:
Hawaii, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2023 9:12 pm
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| I’ll purchase a hardcopy, If you don’t get enough takers I would as an alternative purchase a e-book. Still working through Steelin scales and Bebop. Thanks for taking the effort to educate. |
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Clinton Hasse
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 3:03 am Diatonic Triads in Every Key
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| Yes Mike, I'll buy it. Thank you. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 4:54 am
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| I would be very interested in something like that. |
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Joe Burke
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 5:26 am
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| I'd take 2! I'll pass one to a friend. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 11:12 am
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Cool stuff! I love the way you think differently than many other steelers, Mike.
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2023 3:59 pm
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I don't play C6 too much anymore, but I'd probably get one anyhow.
1. The dyads on the 5th and 6th strings are still applicable to high bass A. And
2. I will eventually get back into C6, I think. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Oct 2023 8:35 am
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I have really been getting into handwritten diagrams lately. It is what I use for my own personal notes and lately what I use with some students.
Does anyone remember Ted Greene's books, especially Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions? I can remember being a kid when they were available and looking at them in the music store (couldn't afford to buy). I have a deep affection for that style, and the easy communication of tangent and related info that can be written on the page so much easier than typing it with some ponderous software. I find creating the diagrams to be fun, but populating with info on a computer a pure p.i.t.a. Besides, I am kind of old fashioned like that and like the personal look of handwritten stuff (unless the penmanship is abysmal).
Once I start figuring out exactly how to lay it all out, I'll post up a sample of it.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2023 10:02 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
I have really been getting into handwritten diagrams lately. It is what I use for my own personal notes and lately what I use with some students.
Does anyone remember Ted Greene's books, especially Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions? I can remember being a kid when they were available and looking at them in the music store (couldn't afford to buy). I have a deep affection for that style, and the easy communication of tangent and related info that can be written on the page so much easier than typing it with some ponderous software. I find creating the diagrams to be fun, but populating with info on a computer a pure p.i.t.a. Besides, I am kind of old fashioned like that and like the personal look of handwritten stuff (unless the penmanship is abysmal).
Once I start figuring out exactly how to lay it all out, I'll post up a sample of it. |
i have read shows/concerts for over 50 years. back in the day everything was hand written. all the charts were actually written out by a person using a pen and the official copyist stamps etc that were available. i like to see those, but the younger players dont. they are used to seeing the templates used today from the computer programs used. sort of like kids today that cant read cursive writing.... the charts i see now are hard for my old eyes to see, so i got an ipad 12.6" screen and put everything in forscore and i can enlarge it on the screen. if i am playing a new show where the copyist are actually on site, i get them to enlarge the print on things like chord symbols and such.
in regards to the ted greene books, yes i got those when they came out along with other chord books. i still work on chord stuff today after decades.
may i say this....no matter what instrument you play. if you do not have a very good knowledge of chords and chord substitutions, you will be fighting an uphill battle to improve on your instrument. i applaud folks like mike who are offering knowledge like this.
if you really want to do an in depth study of chords then get the book by george van epps....
harmonic mechanisms for guitar. you could spend a life time working on it. plenty of other books out there. doesnt matter if they are written for other instruments like piano. you can apply them to the steel guitar. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Oct 2023 10:38 am
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Bill, the George Van Eps Guitar Method was recommended to me by Mike Stern back in the 80s when I was at a lesson. Needless to say, I ran out and bought a copy pronto. Much later on, maybe 10 years ago, I started thinking in those same terms with regard to C6. Of course, George’s reason for writing the book was to kind of initiate players to the style of playing that enables simultaneous melody and chords, the way he plays, and developing digital indepedence for being able to play melodies while you are fingering chords. It is very important stuff.
I had a whole blog post written about it years ago but it appears to be lost. I probably still have the handwritten diagrams I drew then.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2023 3:01 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
Bill, the George Van Eps Guitar Method was recommended to me by Mike Stern back in the 80s when I was at a lesson. Needless to say, I ran out and bought a copy pronto. Much later on, maybe 10 years ago, I started thinking in those same terms with regard to C6. Of course, George’s reason for writing the book was to kind of initiate players to the style of playing that enables simultaneous melody and chords, the way he plays, and developing digital indepedence for being able to play melodies while you are fingering chords. It is very important stuff.
I had a whole blog post written about it years ago but it appears to be lost. I probably still have the handwritten diagrams I drew then. |
I first learned of mike stern about that same era here in atlanta. He was playing at a namm show that was here in the late 70s, he was in the fender room. I kept walking past the door figuring all that was in there was strats and teles, but I heard a guitar player playing some great bop stuff and I went in to check it out. He was playing a white strat and he sounded fabulous.
In regards to chord books, the greatest books I bought in the late 60s were by Johnny rector. They are still in print by Mel bay. Just called chord progressions. He takes a chord progression using say 8 bars…. Just 1. 4. 5. Then he starts to substitute more chords within the 8 bars. The chord progressions get more and more complex. Two books full!After learning all those, I was able to sit in all sorts of reading situations and all sorts of improvising situations as I had an entire library of chords in my head. For decades, every big band gig I did, my charts looked just like what learned in those two books. These days, the big band gigs are not prevalent , but all the songs you play basically use those same chords.
Let’s take a player like bill evans. Do we not admire not only his right hand , but the chordal left hand he has. His chordal work is the most important music he makes as it not only supports the right hand lines, but it serves two purposes of providing the foundation of his right hand single note improv and also can stand alone as its own chordal improv.
In regards to the lap steel, another study that can be made would be a study of how to “imply” chords.ie…how to use partial chords that can serve dual purposes. For instance when a lap steel player looks at a chart and sees an F#min7b5 chord. Instead of being a deer in headlights, all you need to do is play an Amin chord and not put an A in the bottom of it. Or any major 7th chord can be implied by playing a minor chord. Ie….Fmaj7 can be thought of as an Amin over F bass. Unless you are playing a solo lap steel piece, then the bass player would be covering the bass note. So much can be learned from studying chords. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2023 10:49 pm
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Keep spreading the word Mike. Your mastery on steel gives you the cred. People will listen to you and take heed.
I found the George Van Eps book very intimidating and gave up on it.
One day in my mid 20’s a friend of mine played a recording of Ted Greene’s rendering of Danny Boy for me. It was the most beautiful solo guitar playing I’d ever heard.
The friend lent his copy of Chord Chemistry to me, which I found logical and accessible. I ended up buying any Ted Greene material I could get my hands on. I still refer to this treasured book collection after 4 decades.
It has helped me become a better player than I ever thought I could be and continues to inspire, but it also has helped me appreciate and understand music I might not have ever grasped, as well as the artistry of the players making that music.
And, an added bonus - now I get to take what I have learned on guitar from all that study and practice and apply it to the steel guitar, which after 7 years, I now realize is an adventure that will take me to my last breath before I lose interest. |
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BJ Burbach
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2023 4:23 pm
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Awesome thread
Last edited by BJ Burbach on 31 Jul 2024 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 30 Dec 2023 9:12 am
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Thanks for posting this Mike. It’s encouraged me to rethink my approach to my current preferred tuning, D6 — DADF#ABD.
I am starting to think of it almost as two different “tunings”, both in the same key. The five bottom strings are for bluesy rock and roll, straight barre, D major tuning. The five top strings are my D6 tuning for single string, melodic work.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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