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Topic: Sesh 400 Scheming |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 15 Aug 2023 10:57 am |
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Two things I have been thinking about:
-- to be able to use the Sesh the way it's supposed to be used (into a power amp)
-----and-
-- to be able to bypass it and still use the front end 2 channels of my Quilter Mach 3
I'm gigging it with the Sesh into the front of the Quilter and it sounds pretty good. But it 'feels' wrong to run a pre into a pre.
Let me take sincere issue with the absence of a bypass switch on the Sesh. It creates situations with the need for klugey workarounds.
Funny thing is, though -- if I do take it out of the signal chain via a bypass looper, I want to turn it right back on -- the Quilter sounds drab and lifeless after being driven by the Sesh.
So the always on thing may end up being a moot point.
Here's the scheme that gives me three-way switching options:
This requires a switchable FX loop such as in the Quilter.
The double loop box is way too big.
Quick & dirty pedalboard setup:
But wait! There's more!
You can (I will) pick up something nice & compact here. 1.5" x 1.5" x 4"
https://www.loop-master.com/loop-skinnymicro-p-430.html
In summary:
Option 1: (looper off) steel into pedalboard (or straight to front of amp) to front of amp with no Sesh 400
Option 2: (loop 1 on) steel into Sesh 400 into pedalboard (or straight to front of amp) to front of amp
Option 3: (loop 1 & 2 on) steel into Sesh 400 straight to power amp section of (Quilter) amp with loop #2 engaged. This bypasses the rest of the pedalboard.
As I write this I am asking myself if I can put this Sesh and the looper at the end of the pedalboard instead of the beginning and not need to bypass and lose the whole pedalboard when going with Option 3 into power amp.
Need to ponder this. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Aug 2023 8:03 am
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Well.....for all the glory of figuring this out (and I'm glad I did. I've wondered if there was a way to be able to switch between front of the amp and 'amp-in' insert and now I know), after playing for a few hours it seems likely that I will continue with the Sesh always on, always in to the front of the amp. Same as I've been gigging it since I got the Sesh.
Every time I switch to another option I'm either 'that doesn't sound as good' (Sesh turned off) or 'that difference is hardly worth the wiring effort or real estate' (back of amp option).
Not my final answer but it's feeling that way. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2023 9:01 am
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| Jon, I have been following your post to see what the outcome would be. I don't have the Sesh 400 and I don't have any plans to get one yet. I'm exploring some options using preamp simulator and power amps. So far I haven't been impressed with any I used. Everything changes the amp tone but not in the way I thought. Interesting subject. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Aug 2023 9:37 am
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| Larry Dering wrote: |
| ...... Interesting subject. |
It is.
If anyone remembers or still has a receiver with the "LOUDNESS" button, you know how it's supposed to be used at low volumes to compensate for EQ loss but if you turn it up and switch the button off, you miss the enhancement. It becomes an always on thing unless you make a concerted effort to run your system at 'true fidelity'.
That's my experience with the Sesh 400. Turn it off and the Quilter (that sounded good before) now sounds dull.
I'm somewhere between 'my ears are becoming addicted to an unnatural sound and I've lost track of how it should sound' and 'it sounds good. Therefore it IS good.'
Recording should be the best test. I've got a couple of sessions upcoming. A good reason to keep the switching system intact, I suppose.
I did get a cellphone video snippet of a recent gig and it sounded good.
And there's a difference between 'true fidelity' with your stereo where your objective is (or may be) accurate reproduction of sound as opposed to the creation of sound, as we do. Being musicians and all.
Interesting. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2023 4:52 am
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| I agree on the losing track of what it should sound like. Sometimes I will swap and tweak until I like the sound, only to come back later and think it's not what I expected for steel. Ear fatigue or frustration has something to do with it. And without moving anything my jam buddies come over and I find it doesn't sit well in the mix or gets swallowed up by the bass player. But I have fun with the game and will likely never stop turning knobs or trying gear. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 20 Aug 2023 4:17 pm
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Jon I'm surprised the Quilter doesn't have a "power amp in" jack ... thats where a Sesh should really be plugged in to, avoiding the preamp to preamp situation!
"im using mine directly into a Jay Ganz Straight ahead power amp (500W) .. then directly into a open backed Telonics 15" cab - sounds amazing :-} The power amp has just the one knob ... !!
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2023 4:25 pm
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Quilter's FX loop return is functionally the same as power amp-in, Paddy. Post preamp. I'm pretty certain that the result is exactly what you get going direct to a power amp.
I continue to go back & forth re: the benefit of this switching option. I am leaning toward skipping this wiring scheme. But I still feel triumphant in having figured it out and I hold out for the possibility that it wins my favor. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2023 5:26 am
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I've been using my Sesh pedal into a tube amp or tube preamp, mostly Fender style preamp (Revelation, SMS Classic, SMS Spectrum)
There is a redundancy here, a preamp into a preamp. But I'm keeping the Sesh output way down, and I'm kinda balancing the the Sesh EQ with the preamp EQ settings. So most of the Sesh (bass, treble, presence) are quite low. But this works great. It really lets the Sesh and it's very clear, tight low end, nicely shape-able mid, and strong top show off its greatness, and then since my ears are so attuned to tubes (I literally can't play without tubes in there somewhere), the preamp then keeps its treble pretty low (below 30%) and the bass also low (20-25%), and the mids fairly high since the Sesh is providing some mid-dip. This works quite well, and I just love how the Sesh clarifies the low end, shapes it and gives a solidity that the tube preamp doesn't quite do on its own.
I just love the harmonic distortion of the Sesh. That discrete circuit has a pretty good amount of musical harmonic distortion, the reason we loved the original amp so much. Distortion, the right kind and the right amount, is musical mojo. The zero-distortion amps sound sterile and lifeless and non-dimensional to my ears.
Brad |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Sep 2023 5:54 am
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A good opportunity to update this post ---
My resistance to running the Sesh into the front end of a guitar amp (preamp/amp) was just that 'you're not supposed to'. Plus, the testimonials of going into a power amp are so strong.
But I am running the Sesh into the front of my Quilter Mach 3 and it is good. I'm still (always) experimenting but I'm happy with where it's at.
The brief period when I was using a mini looper to switch the Sesh in & out of the signal path demonstrated to me that I ALWAYS preferred it with the Sesh on. So I ditched the extra hardware. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 17 Sep 2023 6:41 am
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Like Paddy, I’m running the Sesh 400 into a Ganz Straight-Ahead power amp. I initially tried running the Sesh through the “power amp in “ sections of both a Telonics 500 & a Nashville 400. Neither sounded as good as it did when using the Ganz.
I also experimented with running the Sesh preamp through both of the above mentioned combo preamps and felt this option didn’t do justice to the Furlong unit or either of the combo amps. My conclusion is that the Sesh/Ganz is a perfect pairing. It’s small, lightweight and, most importantly, sounds great.
Currently, the Sesh is Velcro-mounted on a little platform that clips on the rear leg of my steel. The Straight-Ahead fits nicely on my FX pedalboard. The signal chain is: Emmons—>Telonics VP —>Sesh—> Delay/Reverb FX—>Straight-Ahead amp—>Neo Black Window speaker cab. |
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Dyke Corson
From:
Fairmount, IL USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2023 6:30 pm
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After an afternoon "amp shootout" with several different components, I'm doing similar to Brad with the Shesh into the front of my V8, using a Quilter 101 power amp input for power. Makes my Emmons sound like "push pull on steroids" to quote a friend.  Also on my road IEM rig I put the Shesh in front of my Kemper and what a difference. Didn't know I could get such a tight low end out of my Westones. TC has really come up with a wonderful pedal. |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2023 2:57 pm ...well...
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Re:"preamp into preamp"...
Doesn't running the "Sesh"into the"Return"jack and switching the mini-toggle
switch on the left to"FRFR"take the Quilter preamp out of the equation?
On my TB-202,if I hook it up like that, the EQ doesn't do anything...neither does the"Gain"
knob...the only controls that work are"Master"and"Reverb"...
Sill loving the sound of the"Sesh",but the power sags terribly at the club I play at on Saturday nights...I'm getting distortion...this was happening before I got the"Sesh",too.
I don't think it's a"unity gain"issue...but it could be...
SH |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Sep 2023 4:08 pm
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| Steve -- it's too convoluted so I won't suggest that you waste time with my original post up top but what I was trying to do was to keep using the channel switching of the Quilter Mach 3 which I really dig, and still be able to send the Sesh to the Return jack where you are correct, it bypasses the front end completely. But after succeeding in devising a routing scheme (that was pretty ingenious, if I must say so...) I decided that it wasn't worth the effort or complexity to maintain all three options (Ch 1, Ch 2, or Sesh>power amp) because the Sesh into the front of the amp simply sounds good, even if not as pure as the Sesh into a Ganz Straight Ahead. |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2023 4:47 pm
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Jon,I dig the"Straight Ahead"setup too, but then you gotta deal with a separate reverb...
I really like the Strymon"Flint",so I may just do a pedal board with the S400,SA,and the Flint
on it...
SH |
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