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Topic: LKV lever combinations, photos |
Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 4 Jul 2023 1:43 pm |
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Hi all, I'm getting ready to add an LKV to my 1970s MSA d-12. I'm going to put the B to Bb change on it, but I'm wondering if this change is more useful in combination with the E->F lever or the E->Eb lever. This will determine where I install and whether I point it towards the changer or tuning machines....
I know there are some other threads with LKV photos, but if anybody else has photos to share of their LKV set ups, I'd love to see. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 4 Jul 2023 11:16 pm
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It is useful for both the E-Eb and the E-F
A + B + E->Eb + B->Bb = super useful diminished voicing altho same voicing can be played without the B-Bb if you learn to halfpedal the A pedal.
With the 9th string lowered to C# (root note) the B-Bb will give access to the 6th with or without the E->F
D->C# + A + E->F + B->Bb
give you a nice maj7th on strings 9 8 6 5
Release the A pedal while keeping the B-Bb to smoothly change from a maj7th to a maj6th
You decide what would be more useful for your playing situation.
If you can use the lowering of string 9 D-C# together with the E-F lever then I would favor this combo with the LKV B-Bb just a little bit more than A + B + E->Eb and B->Bb
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2023 8:56 pm
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Are you going to install a factory Vertical lever set up, Or are you going to build it yourself?
Do you play Emmons or Day set up?
Here is a picture of the a LKV I made for a MSA Classic.
Years ago when I first started playing a modern guitar with pedals and knee levers, I bought a MSA Classic, With a Jerry rigged vertical knee lever. I took some of the parts and designed a better knee lever. I put the VKL on the guitar set up Day, When I sold it, The buyer wanted it set up Emmons. When I changed the guitar to Emmons the Knee lever was to short for leg farther to Left. Here is an extension I installed. The new buyer liked the extension thickness making it easier to engage.
The wood extension locks on the metal knee lever, And is easy to remove for casing the guitar. The VKL has both direction stops that stop against the frame of the guitar. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2023 4:19 pm
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Here is a picture of an original Classic vertical Knee lever. Would this lever be long enough to be able to cover both D and F knee lever on your guitar.
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 6 Jul 2023 7:44 pm
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Thank you both for your help!
Bobby, I have bought parts for that MSA classic vertical knee lever you have shown, they are the exact same dimensions. I play Emmons set up on ABC pedals. The 5 inch length of the LKV parts barely spans my two left knee levers but at an angle it won't quite span the full distance between the two. My thought was that if I wanted to engage LKV in combination with one of the other knee levers, I would need to have the hinge/tower connected further away from lever, e.g. hinge LKV ar LKL to play LKV in combination with LKR, provided that the end of the lever extends pass LKR's stopping point when LKR is engaged.... |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2023 9:12 pm
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| The nice thing with the factory knee lever. You could add a removable extension long enough, You could install it to be used with both knee levers, And get leverage to make it easy to engage. |
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 8 Jul 2023 4:30 pm
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| Bobby, i like that idea! Is the wooden extension in that photo just attached by a bracket screwed to the wood? |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2023 7:30 pm
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There is 2 strap brackets screwed to the wood extension, It has a lock on the back. I will take pictures and post.
Look in the shadow of the right KL, It shows the 2nd bracket. |
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 9 Jul 2023 2:36 pm
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| Hi bobby, I'd love to see some photos of that mechanism with the lock in the back. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2023 7:22 pm
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Here is a picture of another Left Knee Lever wood extension I made. I sold 1 of my MSAs and the new owner wants to install a LVKL.
The Lock works good. It is about a 1 inch fender washer, With a flat cut on the edge, And a nylon washer so it will stay where ever turned. When the flat is aligned with the wood edge the wood will slide on or off the metal knee lever. When the washer is turned the round goes up on the metal and locks it.
I made the wood large on this one, So he can cut it to fit him and the guitar.
I was looking at the factory knee lever, A piece of Aluminum 3/4 inch angle with 1 side cut down some. May fit both sides of a piece of wood for a Knee Lever Extension. And add the lock.
Good Luck on this project, Happy Steelin. |
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 9 Jul 2023 8:27 pm
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| Awesome! Bobby, much appreciated. |
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 19 Jul 2023 8:03 pm
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I'm doing a little trial run of this LKV set up and it looks like if I have the lever facing the direction I want, the LKV will be rotating the cross rod the wrong way, i.e. pushing the bell cranks towards the changer instead of pulling them away. See photo below (changer is to the left, tuning machines to the right).
Do you have any suggestions on how I can set this up differently with the hardware I already have? I don't really have room to point the lever itself in the other direction. I also feel limited by the placement of the screw to tighten the (bellcrank?) peice to the onto cross rod. Any suggestions welcome.
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Ben Feldman
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 19 Jul 2023 8:07 pm
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| I realize that photo is a bit difficult to see. I have the back apron off of the guitar to see how the components will line up with the cross rods..... The parts in question are held up to the apron, they are the same parts as the classic MSA parts bobby posted a photo of. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2023 9:56 pm
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From the picture. Move the forked knee lever support stand 1 cross shaft to the left. Move the cross rod to the hole now in the upside down U of the support. This will allow you to move the lever on the cross shaft from 10 O'clock to 2 O'clock. That will make it pull the rods Pull, To activate the pulls on the changer. This should also put the lock screw on the lever in a better position to tighten. Moving the knee lever to the left will about center the vertical knee between the 2 knee levers and make it easier to work.
The U shaped legs allow the support to straddle another cross shaft without contacting the cross rod and hindering its movement.
Its 1:51 am. or I would go to the shop and take a picture of the knee lever I have.
Going to bed, I will "Check In" in the morning. bj |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2023 9:28 pm
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Lost my internet today, Spectrum may have been working on it. Was back when I got in tonight.
Here is a picture of how the lever would be to reverse the pull on the rods. You may have to remove the bolt that connects the arm to the knee lever and reverse the Cross Shaft Lever.
You will also need dead stops on the Cross Shaft also, That will stop against the body. Were they included with the knee lever?
Measure from the tip of the knee lever to the bolt that attaches the cross rod lever. Mark the lever and try to center as close as you can, To center of vertical knee levers. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2023 9:48 pm
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| The stops are shaped like the lever that hooks on the cross shaft, But no slot or roll pin to hold the bar that goes to the lever. |
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