| Author |
Topic: harmonics drills |
John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
|
Posted 3 Jul 2023 1:15 pm |
|
| I suck at harmonics. Anyone have good drills for practicing them? |
|
|
 |
Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted 3 Jul 2023 1:32 pm
|
|
How do you try do do it now?
_________________
----------------------------------
JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo |
|
|
|
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
|
Posted 7 Jul 2023 7:39 pm
|
|
I'm surprised at the lack of response. Your inquiry is very valid.
I don't consider myself an expert at it, but I do occasionally play a few harmonics on stage.
The easiest ones for me are palm harmonics. Touch the string with the heel of your right hand, twelve frets above the bar as you pluck the string with your thumb pick. They are not as bright and bell like as the others. But I can hit them more consistently than the others.
Then there is the finger tip harmonic where you have to lean forward and wrap your right arm around the changer end of the steel, and using the ring finger (assuming no pick on the finger) pluck the string with your thumb pick as you touch the string with your ring finger 12 frets above the bar. It's brighter than a palm harmonic.
Finally, at least as far I know, there is the knuckle harmonic. For this you curl up the fingers of the right hand and touch the string with the knuckle of your little finger twelve frets above the bar, as you pluck the string with your thumb pick. I find this one to be tricky to pull of, but it sounds very good when you get it right.
Pay a lot of attention to your hand position when you get it right, and then repeat it ad nauseum. When you move from one string to the next higher or lower string be very conscious of your hand position. The slightest variation in your hand position can cause you to miss the sweet spot on the string.
At least in the beginning, focus on the middle strings 4,5, & 6 of the E9 neck, and don't overplay; just play simple 1 and 2 note phrases, with occasional pedal movement.
Finally there are also usable harmonics 5 frets and 7 frets above wherever the bar is placed. But I'd focus on the ones 12 frets up, at least in the beginning.
Find what works and then repeat it endlessly. I would work on all three techniques as they each have their place. There is no substitute for repetition with good technique.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
|
|
|
Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2023 5:53 am
|
|
I was a palm chimer WHEN I chimed for years, but the problem for me was always that you can't see where your palm is actually hitting. I'd have to work out where my thumbpick was hitting and then hope that the distance between thumb and palm stayed consistent. Then talking to Travis Toy who is a finger tip chimer I started working on that and found it easier and more consistent. I can now SEE, where my fingertip is chiming and don't have to be gauging where my thumb is. The chimes are clearer, and if really wanting clear I've even chimed with the back of the finger nail as well. Its a little less forgiving but a real bell ringer when executed correctly.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
|
|
|
Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2023 2:02 pm
|
|
Hi John,
I tried palm harmonics, but it did not work too well. My palm "bottom" is kind of flat, making hitting the right spot on the chime fret hard.
Paul and Dale, in their answers, covered some good methods.
Also, on youtube James Shelton, under "Happy Harmonics, part 2". He makes a good visual explanation of doing harmonics. I use his "pinky" method.
Luck on learning.....Pat |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2023 2:20 pm
|
|
Something I learned about palm harmonics from a Doug Beaumier post over in Steel Without Pedals -
Don’t look at your palm for fret location, obviously you can’t see the 12th fret above the bar with your pick hand covering it and are only roughly estimating where it is. Look at your thumb. It is much easier to be accurate with where your pick actually plays the string. So just find the sweet spot with your palm, and try to muscle-memorize and visualize where your picking thumb is in relation. Just go straight across all 10 (or 12) strings in that exact spot with your wrist and thumb pick steady. Chances are good that it won’t be exactly on a fret marker, so forget using that. It’s about memorizing.
Palm harmonics are sweeter sounding and easier for me to do than the others. |
|
|
|
Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
|
Posted 9 Jul 2023 8:03 am Pinky
|
|
I’ve always used my little finger…I use an open hand ,ring and little finger out and flat playing…both palm and a little finger blocking going on….
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
|
|
|
John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
|
Posted 10 Jul 2023 11:51 am
|
|
| I use 3 finger picks, so I would have to use my pinky to play finger tip harmonics. I’ll give it a try. |
|
|
|
David Farrell
From:
San Diego, California, USA
|
Posted 12 Jul 2023 4:30 pm
|
|
I'm terrible at harmonics.
I tried it with the tip of my pinky finger today. I had more success than I've ever had before.
I'm going to keep on with this & hope for more good luck with it!
_________________
Dave
Fender pedal steels, amps & guitars. '73 Sho~Bud PRO 1 CUSTOM. Emmons ReSound'65 S-10 4x5. |
|
|
|
Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
|
Posted 13 Jul 2023 12:17 am
|
|
I consider myself very lucky when I perfectly execute all the single string hamonics I'm trying to play.
Here's a drill after you've accomplished 'mastering' (ha!) those 'single string' harmonics...
With Buddy Emmons "curled knuckle pinky finger technique," he - and most probably only he! - was able to harmonic one string, and at the same time simultaneously pick the adjacent string.
'like picking 4th string and executing harmonic on the 3rd string
During a lesson years ago with Mike Cass, Mike referred to those two methods as "Harmonics" vs. "Chimes"
And yes, I gave up on that years ago!
Last edited by Ron Funk on 3 Aug 2023 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
|
Posted 13 Jul 2023 6:02 pm
|
|
Groover, if you have some time and a webcam. or a built-in webcam in a laptop, why don't we get together, I'll show you the 6 or 7 ways I know to achieve decent harmonics. Plus we're both extended E9 geeks, be fun to compare notes!
Ring me up if you want to pursue this. Hope all is well in the Southland.
All best,
John McClung
Pedal Steel Lessons, Casuals, Sessions
Olympia, WA 98512
Email & PayPal fees – steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net
Easy PayPal link: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme2/JohnMcClung
Website – http://steelguitarlessons.com
Skype name: professortwang
Cell & text: 310-480-0717
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
|
|
|
Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 19 Jul 2023 8:06 pm
|
|
I'm a knucleballer. I've tried the fingertip thing and I have trouble getting harmonic rolls and chords off it that way. I can just move the knuckle in concert with my thumb and slide it across the strings. It's the only method I've been able to find that works reliably for quick arpeggios.
_________________
1989 Mullen PRP SD-10, 2021 Williams S-10, Quilter TT-12. |
|
|
|
Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
|
|
|
|
Landon Johnson
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2023 3:57 pm
|
|
| Fred Treece wrote: |
Something I learned about palm harmonics from a Doug Beaumier post over in Steel Without Pedals -
Don’t look at your palm for fret location |
I even went so far as to put some pieces of tape where I should pick as I was trying to learn. If I have the bar at the 5th fret (A) I know that if I pick just before the 12th my knuckle will hit at the 17th... or whatever. I did that for about a year and then when I got a new guitar I left them off... now I have it in my muscle memory and don't have to think abnout it.
_________________
1989 Mullen PRP SD-10, 2021 Williams S-10, Quilter TT-12. |
|
|
|
Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
|
Posted 26 Jul 2023 5:18 pm
|
|
The palm provides the most width and since the frets are smaller where the palm is, I'd say this is the easiest, but is lacking the clear, "pointed" sound of a fingernail.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
|
|
|
Jon Voth
From:
Virginia, USA
|
Posted 27 Jul 2023 7:43 pm
|
|
| This topic is dear to me, as I suck as well. What about the left hand? When sliding a harmonic I always pick up sounds from other strings. Do you inherently pick up the bar and isolate the string every time? This is hard for me. Any pointers from folks who are good at this? |
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 28 Jul 2023 4:56 am
|
|
I can only execute a chime with my palm. Do I pull it off every time?
No!
The contortion required for the fingertip method has always been beyond me (or I've not put in the required time!!) and I do confess that, when I 'chime' at all, it sounds duller than I'd like.
An interesting thread, full of good advice. Maybe I should remind myself of the many hours that Emmons himself devoted entirely to that confined area; small wonder that he was so adept at it.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
|
Posted 29 Jul 2023 4:45 am
|
|
lots of great discussion on techniques...
if i had a few hours to spare i would concentrate on the knuckle technique as i use it most frequently.
i'd practice arpeggiating chords, maybe even to a metronome.
then, i'd work on moving through scales up the fret board.
finally, i'd try to play some simple melodies using only harmonics. |
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 29 Jul 2023 4:53 am
|
|
What about lifting the bar and just using the tip? Who does this rather than leaving it across the strings?
I've been trying it: it's easier to get a clean 'chime' - the other strings don't need blocking - but not easy for my left hand to accomplish. I use a heavy 12-string bar (15/16ths).
What's the general consensus on this?
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 29 Jul 2023 5:04 am
|
|
| I also use three finger picks so my default has been the pinky knuckle, but I try to practice palm harmonics as well as it allows for multiple strings to be chimed simultaneously. Practice practice and practice some more, and don't take it too hard when you miss it in public. |
|
|
|
Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
|
Posted 2 Aug 2023 11:29 am Pinky under here
|
|
I’m a pinky tucked under guy, and I need improvement.
Someone asked the question at a teaching seminar. The response was
“There’s no secret, just practice” |
|
|
|
Andrew Goulet
|
Posted 3 Aug 2023 5:39 am
|
|
I place the tip of my ring finger on the string 12 frets above the bar, and pick the string with my thumb. It's pretty hard to do in a live situation without giving myself a couple beats to make sure I'm on target, but I'm getting better. I find that I have to take a deep breath and zone out of the high, nervous energy of playing live to get a clear sound.
I've never been able to use the palm method with any accuracy. To me, it's much harder to reliably find the right spot.
_________________
Marlen S12 and a ZT Club |
|
|
|
Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
|
Posted 3 Aug 2023 2:14 pm
|
|
I use a method that I developed on my own and I can’t imagine that I’m the only one to use this:
I place the blade of my thumb pick 12 frets from the bar and pick the string with the finger pick on my middle finger in a sort of ‘finger-snap’ fashion. I adopted this method for two main reasons. It allows me to precisely play at the harmonic point without drastically changing right hand ergonomics (it also works well at 7 and 5 frets from the bar). And second, with practice, the chimes are crystal-clear and loud. I can also see that it could facilitate the Emmons technique of picking an adjacent string, non-harmonically, simultaneously with the chimed string. I have yet to perfect that “trick”. 😕
Keep on pickin’!
Glenn
_________________
Steelin' for Jesus |
|
|
|
Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
|
|
|
|
D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 3 Aug 2023 5:58 pm
|
|
| Glenn Suchan wrote: |
I use a method that I developed on my own and I can’t imagine that I’m the only one to use this:
I place the blade of my thumb pick 12 frets from the bar and pick the string with the finger pick on my middle finger in a sort of ‘finger-snap’ fashion. I adopted this method for two main reasons. It allows me to precisely play at the harmonic point without drastically changing right hand ergonomics (it also works well at 7 and 5 frets from the bar). And second, with practice, the chimes are crystal-clear and loud. I can also see that it could facilitate the Emmons technique of picking an adjacent string, non-harmonically, simultaneously with the chimed string. I have yet to perfect that “trick”. 😕
Keep on pickin’!
Glenn |
I discovered this method as well, Glenn. For me it has a pretty good success rate but I find the attack to be pretty percussive. I like to use this one when it makes sense to hide the attack with the volume pedal all the way back. I also have a lot of success with the knuckle on my ring finger and I think that one sounds better. |
|
|
|
