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Topic: Stage one pedal 2 question |
Michell Geerdink
From:
Netherlands
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 1:03 am |
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Hi all,
I've gotta question regarding my new (to me ) Stage one.
If my english is not 100% acurate, forgive me, i'm from the Netherlands. 
My question: when i push pedal 2 both strings won't get activated at the same time like the strings on pedal 1 & 3 do. It'll go in steps and this i can feel when i'm playing. Pushed all the way down will end just fine. It's the beginning.
Is this something i will have to accept and get used to or could i do something in order to get them to start simultaniously?
Thanks in advance,
Michell[/img] |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 3:23 am
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Michell -- it very probably can be adjusted. This timing issue is a common one because the amount of movement needed by the 3rd string and 6th string to achieve the half-step raise is very different due to the physics involved with string gauge, tension, etc.
But there is a problem and a warning:
As a complete beginner, you can easily make matters worse rather than better. Everything affects everything on a pedal steel guitar. The results of making changes to the mechanism can be extremely frustrating if you do not have a good feeling for how things work and for the unintended consequences of any changes that you may make. (Overtuning is often a result --- see overtuning discussion at the top of this page, if you must).
I can discuss this adjustment, if you are determined to make changes. But I also welcome you to leave it alone for the time being. It is much better to play your guitar than to be busy solving unnecessary problems with it.
Since I am here -- can you confirm that it is the 3rd string that starts moving first with the 6th string engaging later? That is the most common issue. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 6:06 am
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I think I remember reading that very specific string gauges (and a wound 6th string) are necessary for the Stage One changer to function properly.
~Lee |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 6:17 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
I think I remember reading that very specific string gauges are necessary for the Stage One changer to function properly.
~Lee |
Indeed the Forum store carries a Stage One string set. The primary (and extremely important) feature of this set is the use of a wound 6th string.
This actually should have been my first question to Michell -- is your 6th string a plain or a wound string? If the previous owner replaced the original string with a plain string, this will definitely contribute to your timing problem. Returning to a wound .022 string should be your first move before making any adjustments to the guitar.
Here are the strings:
https://www.steelguitarshopper.com/bobby-lees-e9th-stainless-steel-ghs-10-string-set-with-a-wound-6th/ |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 10:22 am
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If it has the Stage One decal on the front it was made for and set up with stainless strings, and a .022 wound on the sixth string.
If it has the ZumSteel logo it was set up for stainless and a plain .020 sixth string.
Neither one is ever going to be perfect. If you are depressing the pedals as quickly as you should you should not notice it with either arrangement.
Either setup can be used, it is only a matter of moving the rod on the sixth string. As was mentioned, they play and tune better with the wound sixth. |
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Michell Geerdink
From:
Netherlands
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 12:16 pm
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Wow, thanks guys for the usefull information and your tips.
The 6th string on my Stage one is a unwound plain string so i will go and look for a set that has a wound 6th string.
Doug,my Stage one has the 'Stage one licenced by Zumsteel' logo.
Thanks, i'm very happy with the guitar. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 12:41 pm
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I concur with Jon, just ignore the little “step” when you’re playing. Fixing that issue could lead to other issues, so it’s probably best to leave well enough alone if all else is okay.
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Alex Stewart
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 3:48 pm
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FWIW, 3&6 move at the same time on my Stage One, which is one that Doug built and that I bought from him. I use the wound .022 on string 6 as advised and a .012 on string 3. I buy the Stage One strings in the store, here, and sub a .012 for the .0115 that is included in the set.
On string 3 the pull rod is on the 2nd hole from the bottom on the bell crank and string 6 is on the 4th hole from the bell crank bottom. Don't know if that makes a timing difference as I am far from being an expert. Just an observation.
I do know that if you change holes on bell cranks you should research how to do it properly. (Pretty sure the hex nut needs to be loosened a bit at the start to avoid over-tightening when you bring the strings back up to pitch.)
Like I said, not a expert...so don't do anything I say without double-checking....but that is how mine is set up. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2023 9:20 pm
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I would not change anything on the guitar right now.
If you are planning on getting a set of new strings with a .022 Wound 6th string. Wait till you get the new set of strings and see how the guitar tunes and plays with the .022 Wound 6th string.
REASON.
String travel to reach a note is affected and controlled by string diameter, (With a wound string, The core diameter is what controls its movement when raising or lowering a note.). The larger the diameter of the string the shorter the travel, To reach note.
A .020 plain string would take much less travel from G# to A, Than a .022 Wound string from G# to A. with a core diameter of about .010, From G# to A.
This would make the 3rd string start, Then catch and pull the 6th string, And pull both strings to A at the pedal's stop.
Good Luck getting your guitar properly tuned. Happy Steelin. |
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Michell Geerdink
From:
Netherlands
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Posted 25 Jun 2023 3:00 am
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Thanks a lot guys, that's a lot of usefull and interesting information.
I had a MSA classic that i could tweak on forever(and i did) because everything was adjustable. With the Stage one i don't know whether i could get the pullrod out of the bellcrack to change to another hole etc.
Next week i'll be receiving an oil that ordered from Jahan Janssen, by then i'll be having a new set of strings as well, which will containe a wound 022 for the 6th.
So i understand a 012 for the 3rd string would be the best combination?
I have a c6 set laying around that has a 012, i could use that one, right?
Thanks again,
Michell |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Jun 2023 3:13 am
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.012 is what I use. .0115 is what the 'Bobby Lee's Stage One' set contains. .011 is what a majority of steel guitar sets use. Technically, going to a larger 3rd string is going in the right direction, requiring a slightly shorter travel than an .011. But none of these choices is a big deal.
I repeat what I said originally --
| Quote: |
If the previous owner replaced the original string with a plain string, this will definitely contribute to your timing problem. Returning to a wound .022 string should be your first move before making any adjustments to the guitar.
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This alone might bring the two strings into sync.
If you end up wanting to make adjustments later on, the rods will come right out of the bellcranks. No problem. I had already prepared graphics and an explanation but decided not to post them when I realized that the plain-string 6th might be the simple issue. But if you need this guidance, let me know. |
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David Donn
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 25 Jun 2023 3:41 am
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| What ever you're experiencing moving to a wound 6th string may not make any difference. On my Stage One I use 0.11 plain on the 3rd and 0.20 plain on the 6th. It works fine. |
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Michell Geerdink
From:
Netherlands
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Posted 7 Jul 2023 8:47 am
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Tomorrow i want to do some maintainence to my Stage one.
Now i'm wondering, could i remove all the strings at once to clean the fretboard or will this mess things up in any way, and should i change the strings one by one?
Thanks in advance,
Michell |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2023 5:29 pm
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| There’s no harm in taking all strings off at once. It does make cleaning easier. You can put your new strings on in any order you want, but I do 10-9-8-7-6 and then 1-2-3-4-5. Hopefully the reasoning is obvious. |
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Michell Geerdink
From:
Netherlands
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Posted 7 Jul 2023 9:25 pm
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| Thank you Fred👍🙂 |
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