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Topic: Lowering string 9 with E- lever? |
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2023 5:27 pm |
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| Does anybody do this? I ask because my E lower lever is on the right knee along with the D lower lever. In other words, it is not possible to lower both at the same time. Just wondering if anyone lowers strings 9-8-4 with the E lever (to C#-D#-D#) on RKL, while also retaining the independence of the D lower lever (to C#) on RKR. Pros and cons, how do you do it, etc. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2023 7:23 pm
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I do. Gets rid of that 9th string clam note when lowering E's for a major 6th chord. Makes string 9 the 2nd or 9th in a B6 chord. It's on my RKL. F's raise on RKR, by the way. I've done this for years and there's no significant downside that I've ever heard.
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Mike Preuss
From:
Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2023 7:47 pm
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| LKR + RKR is my go to for a minor 9 chord. I like the idea of adding string 9 D-C# lower to LKR. Nothing lost, except the awkwardness of both knees pushing right. I'll be adding this change to try it out. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2023 10:42 pm
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What I mean is putting a D-C# lower on the same lever as E-D#. All 3 on RKL.
You got it John ; I want to lose the minor 3rd clam (and gain the major 2) in my B6 mode.
I realize I could just swap E+ and E- levers. With E- on the left knee, right knee could do the D-C# (and D#-C# on str 2) lever on RKR. Might try that first. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 4 Jun 2023 5:01 am
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Apart from location (I lower my Es on LKL), I am enthusiastic about this idea; lowering the 9th along with the Es.
It's a good idea, Fred and, in my case, there's no issue with losing anything. My 9th/2nd (and 10th, incidentally) lower is on RKR so I would retain independence were I to add the D to C# to my E lowers.
The only fly in the ointment is that I only have two 'lowers' on my LeGrande and they're both in use (P4 and RKR.
I love the idea, though; like John, I can't see a downside; quite the opposite, in fact.
My new (and imminent???  ) Williams D13th 12-string has three lowers in its changer but I fear they're already spoken for too with the hybrid D9th/D6th setup I've ordered. I'll have to live without it, as clever as it is.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 4 Jun 2023 5:58 am
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PS: Of course, I can get this combination now with LKL (Es - ) and RKR (2-/--, 9 -, 10 --). I just never thought of it.
Silly Roger!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2023 9:06 pm
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I lower D to C# on same lever as lowering Es. I also lower strings 2 and 9 on a different lever (same knee - different direction). Works flawlessly for me.
Only thing you will miss out on is the possibility of 3 chromatic notes together on the low end for quick chromatic runs. I can live without that.
Steve |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 8:13 am
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| I am probably the low man on the totem pole here , but I use that low D when in B6 mode , ie with the 8th string lowered. I use the strings 9, 6 and 5 to get the E7 , so I have a 4 chord at the same fret as the 1 chord , strings 8 , 6 and 5 . I can play a bunch of stuff with just that E lower lever engaged and the low D gets used a lot . |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 8:57 am
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J,
I imagine that’s pretty much what everybody with similar setups does, myself included. I don’t think the proposed change does any permanent damage to that capability.
It’s probably just a mental thing, but I usually release the E lever when I go to the (4) dom7 chord at the same fret anyway, so I figure why not just lose the low b3 of of the maj6 with the E lower engaged.
Don’t forget, E’s lowered also creates a m7 chord. So the unchanged 9th string represents a b5, which can be equally useful or annoying depending on context.
Plus, as Steve Leal mentions, gaining another 3 adjacent strings (10-9-8) with whole steps between them is more valuable to me than having them a half step apart (with the addition of Pedal A). I literally never use that. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 10:17 am
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I found myself considering adding the 9th lower to the E lower: common sense prevailed when I realized I could lower 9 simultaneously on my RKR. What with lowering 2, 9, and the Es (along with pedals-down), I get a very rich B9 across all ten strings.
There's no need to compromise things by adding the 9th lower (not that I can on the Emmons - both 'lowers' are used up); I can engage the A and B pedals, RKR and LKL, and get a fat B9 chord across all ten strings. There are advantages to keeping them separate, as others have pointed out.
(NB: My RKR also lowers 10 to an A but engaging the A pedal returns the string to its open B.)
Strings 10 to 1 with the above combination (in scale tones): 1,9,3,5,7,9,3,7.9.5.
PS: Apologies for the scattered and ungrammatical post that I wrote yesterday; I posted it while on dialysis!  I must watch out for that. Edited a day later, hopefully clarifying what I'd tried to say. 
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 6 Jun 2023 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2023 4:05 pm
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| Right, Roger. I wouldn’t change anything with that setup. Although, with my proposition, I could retain the D- on RKL, which removes the b9 clam in AF mode. You want the b9 with just F lever engaged for diminished chords, but I like to lower string 9 when playing a straight C# major or dom7. With F lever on the right knee that would not be possible. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Jun 2023 4:13 am
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Note amendments to my reply of yesterday. I wasn't quite myself.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2023 8:15 am
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| Even in a dialysis fog, your posts are more coherent than much of what passes the final edit here, Roger. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Jun 2023 9:26 am
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Most kind, Fred.
Yesterday, I was incapable of composing a sentence; today, I can barely play my steel. If only I could combine all my faculties on the same day!
My new Tascam 8-track recorder arrives later today. That will put the cat amongst the pigeons, as we say where I come from. All weaknesses will, no doubt, become very apparent when I press the red button.
Don't hold your breath waiting for 'OBS' at 120 bpm!!!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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