Finish on an Old Guitar

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I love the finish on my 1975 Sho-Bud 6160. This photo makes it look like a wreck but that is not at all the case. It looks like a well used instrument should and I wouldn't change a thing. Except.....the photo shows one of several areas that are flaking fairly easily and quickly. All of them are at corners and joints/edges.

I have some ideas for making these spots a bit more stable, starting with working with lacquer thinner and a fine paint brush to try to re-wet the brittle spots and try to get them to bind.

But before I touch a thing I would like input from people who know more about this than I do. I have no intention of doing a restoration. Just looking to stabilize some stuff.

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

That is a cool work horse guitar Jon. Your idea about using thinner makes sense,I'm hoping some finish experts chime in. I'm curious myself.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I run into this ALL THE TIME; on every Sho~Bud I receive to restore. It is mainly as you said; the Old Nitro Lacquer that has dried out and flakes in different ways like you can see with the lines and the strips...etc.
I use a good Floor wax/paste clear and "Wax on Wax off daniel-son"..ha...LOL
That helps pull up the existing Lacquer that is still sunk into wood. Then the simple but most important moisture....yes..."wait for it"....BAM. Old English Lemon Oil. Leave on over night. Then always using cotton cloth in all procedures'. and polish next day; good ole Maguire's Car Finish....wax on wax off daniel-son.
Wala....MOISTURIZE frequent with lemon oil to keep moisture positive. Yes the old lacquer will still be chipped/cracked; but you won't see it anymore.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks Ricky.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

I've used Mohawk Amalgamator Solvent in the past to restore nitro finishes. Might be worth investigating.
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Jerry Jones

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

IT's a "relic", but that faded-out green looks pretty good, doesn't it? Winking

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks Jerry.

My intention (for now) is to address very small areas where lacquer is actually flaking. I just took a soft 1/4" brush and lacquer thinner to a small spot and it has made a nice difference.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

This not only seems to work well in a very small area, seeming to heal the brittle edges a bit, but it also carries some lacquer and pigment onto the bare wood. It would seem that the lacquer holds some coloration -- leached from the dye/stain used on the wood? I don't know -- but it reduces the color differential between the lacquered area and the exposed wood.
I would never use this technique on a large flat area. The disruption to the surface gloss would stand out glaringly in the right light.

Kenny Davis · From: Great State of Oklahoma

Jon - Are you the original owner? I’m wondering because the coloring looks almost identical to my ‘73 Pro II which was blue. I’ll take a picture in natural light and post later for comparison.

Also, what pickup is that?
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..."

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Kenny -- no. I bought it online from a Colorado store 14 years ago. I actually knew the name of the previous owner because he'd stuck his name on the front in off-the-shelf lettering. But I'd have to dig up old photos to remember the name (because no, I did not keep the name on it......I might have if it had said Lloyd Green).
The guitar is 1975 based on serial number and the features -- two-hole swivel pullers and 2 over 2 changer.

Yes -- I have seen & heard that this guitar may have been blue rather than green --- that this is the color that the blue faded to. Any place that I've been inside & under the guitar that might reveal less faded color is pretty inconclusive but having worked in the printing industry, I'm well aware of the chemical and physical quirks of dyes, pigments and UV light.

I also wonder in the twin 6160 photo above whether the client's less faded but still somewhat faded guitar was blue rather than green?

The pickup is a BL 912. I replaced the original SC which was pretty microphonic, even after a Jerry Wallace rewind. It has suited me for these years but I've got a 712 in hand that I may try just because .... because. The 912 (12 string 910) is a bit dark. But not so dark that some amp tweaking can't deal with it.

Bottom line -- after inspecting it in morning light, this careful and very sparing work with lacquer thinner and a nice soft brush (NOT slopping it on, NOT working it in -- just letting the solvent re-wet and flow-out some original finish --) has worked very well to bond some tiny flaky spots and, as an added bonus, to make them look less injured.
The re-flowed lacquer has a slight gloss, different than the old finish, that would look awful over a larger patch of space. So anybody getting any ideas, keep that in mind.

Nice soft brush:

Brian Lee · From: Washington, USA

You might also try using nitrocellulose lacquer rather than thinner. Stewart Macdonald is a good source. I’ve done “drop fills” of minor chips , dings, and flaked finish using it. You can build it up a little with a few applications. The stew Mac site also describes different weights of cyanoacrylate for drop fills- which allows deeper fills with less work, but I like using the original nitro finish material.
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'52 Fender Dual 8, '65 ZB Custom D10, '67 ZB Custom S12, 2022 Jackson Pro V, other guitars, amps. Harmonica player too.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks Brian.
I thought of that. Since this guitar has absolutely zero of its original gloss, I was concerned about building up or creating something that would stand too apart from the old surface. And I note that this is NOT any sort of restoration.
I'm pleased enough with how this worked. I'll watch it for a while to see if it really has arrested the flaking in the treated areas. For the most part, all of that checking seems pretty stable. It's just a few areas at the edges or joints that seem to want to let go.
We'll see.

Kenny Davis · From: Great State of Oklahoma

Here's a couple of views in natural light. You should be able to see traces of blue. Funny, I always blamed the fade on a multitude of outdoor daytime gigs I played in the late 70's. Not having a scientific background, I didn't realize it was destined to fade regardless! But, old photos shows it had faded considerably within 3-4 years.

I can't seem to locate a picture of it as new for a comparison, but it was a very pretty dark blue.
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Best lyric in a country song: "...One more, Moon..."

Brian Lee · From: Washington, USA

Yep, the general surface checking looks very stable. My suggestion of using nitro lacquer was only for localized "drop fills" - to apply it with a small brush within the chipped out areas - shown circled in your initial post photos. That could bring those chipped areas up to be less noticeable, while retaining the original patina / surface checking overall that gives it such great character. I really like that you retained the original finish rather than doing a refinish. It's in pretty nice shape and the fade color and checking give it cool character!
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'52 Fender Dual 8, '65 ZB Custom D10, '67 ZB Custom S12, 2022 Jackson Pro V, other guitars, amps. Harmonica player too.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

What Brian said, but you can just use Deft wood finish from Home Depot. It's nitrocellulose lacquer and will melt into the surrounding finish to seal and bond to the edges of the chip(s). Deft is formulated to dry more slowly than straight lacquer so it will flow and smooth out. The spray cans are the smallest/cheapest option, just spray a little spot onto a piece of paper or something and pick a couple of drops up with the brush. Just be sure to send the cat out to chase the squirrels first.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon

Rich Upright · From: Florida, USA

You DO realize there are guitar players who actually pay good money to companies that will do that to their brand new guitars, don't you?
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

One of my 'standard lines' is that something has got "an honest aged finish that a custom shop distresser can only dream of".

Brian Lee · From: Washington, USA

Great one Jon!
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'52 Fender Dual 8, '65 ZB Custom D10, '67 ZB Custom S12, 2022 Jackson Pro V, other guitars, amps. Harmonica player too.

Russell Nugent · From: LA (lower Alabama)

I have a ProII that started out blue but is now a pretty nice green

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm a few years retired from my job of 35 years as a fine art printer. We knew our stuff pretty well but it still sometimes surprised us to watch what would happen when you combined pigments and when UV light spent a lot of time working on the dyes & pigments.

Kenny Davis · From: Great State of Oklahoma

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