| Author |
Topic: Carter-Starter |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 19 Apr 2023 7:08 am |
|
Please see the pickup question at the end of this post!
This guitar was brought to me a couple of years ago in deep trouble. But fortunately it turned out that a lot of its problems were simply someone messing with it -- severely -- without a clue.
By means of a long (and unnecessary to tell) story, it is back in my hands. I bought it for what I felt it was worth, entirely so that I could "flip" it -- sell it to a beginner for what I paid for it with zero markup. I performed the enhancement shown in the pics -- I trimmed and reshaped the left-moving levers and created positive stops. It works perfectly and corrects the single greatest compromise and flaw of the C-S.
If I could find a simple way to do it, I would replace the string 5 B >A # lower with a first string F# > G raise but these little cross shafts aren't friendly to any off-the-shelf bellcranks (and the C-S cranks are welded on) so I'm going to leave it alone. I've got a guy needing this guitar (the same guy with the home-built pull-release guitar that I gave up on) and I'm excited to get this into his hands.
Pickup question:
Has anyone put something like a GeorgeL humbucker in a Starter? I find the guitar to be thin sounding and would love to fatten it up (plus, I like humbuckers). I'm wondering if it's asking too much of a pickup, trying to make a tiny, small-sounding guitar sound bigger.
 |
|
|
 |
Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 19 Apr 2023 8:22 am
|
|
I suggest having it replaced with a humbucker made to fit the existing slot; or it might be possible to stack coils (and modify the bobbin) or use different gage winding wire on the existing bobbin.
One thing I’ve found with humbuckers is that fatter pickups generally have lower D.C. resistance. A good example is the original PAF type, which in 6-string form has resistance hovering around 8k ohms. When makers started overwinding for higher output they ended up with extreme “scooped mid” tone curves -lots of highs and lows but but the smooth midrange was lost.
It’s not true in every case, but is the general result.; and the same is true of many steel humbuckers, where pickups in the 15k+ range have bite and bone-rattling lows, but lack smoothness and warmth. Just some food for thought, and not an “absolute”.
I usually go to Jerry Sentell for “pickup creativity”. He’s done both steel and 6-string pickups at very reasonable pricing.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 19 Apr 2023 10:05 am
|
|
I've worked with and I used to refer people to Sentell. Apparently he doesn't want me to any more. I've moved on.
This pickup cavity should take a standard wide mount humbucker and a $50 used GeorgeL such as a 10-1 might be just the ticket for this $600 guitar, I'm thinking.
Bottom line is that this Carter-Starter is a lot better than a lot of people give it credit for (especially after the mod I did). But it is also not going to be mistaken for a tone machine. But if I were comfortable gigging with a 10 string E9 (I'm not), I'd get thru the evening ok and nobody would ask me 'why are you playing that awful sounding POS?!'
Because it isn't. |
|
|
|
Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
|
Posted 19 Apr 2023 4:34 pm
|
|
Hi John I totaly agree that the Starter is a better guitar than it is given credit for. I had one brought to me a few months ago with the LKL broken off and the RKL very unstable as most were. I think the left moving Knees were the bigist weekness they had.
I did much the same thing you did as far as adding stops but having a milling machine I made a bolt on reinforcement
bracket with stop.
The bracket fits over the cross shaft and bolts to the Knee lever crank.
The lever then bolts back to that bracket stiffning the lever crank and adding a solid stop.
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
|
|
|
Bob Sykes
From:
North Carolina
|
Posted 21 Apr 2023 3:26 pm
|
|
I put a GeorgeL in my Starter. ISTR having to trim the tabs on the PUP. Didn't have much height adjustment but it works. Much better noise rejection that the stock PUP.
_________________
Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10, Chandler RH-2, Rogue RLS-1
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 21 Apr 2023 3:32 pm
|
|
Barry Coker -- that's nice looking. I lack the chops or the gear to machine anything beyond the most remedial stuff.
Bob -- thanks for that info. |
|
|
|
Bob Sykes
From:
North Carolina
|
Posted 21 Apr 2023 3:52 pm
|
|
Edited to remove rust on strings 
_________________
Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10, Chandler RH-2, Rogue RLS-1
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum |
|
|
|
Mike Beley
From:
Alberta, Canada
|
Posted 26 Apr 2023 11:42 am
|
|
I just put a 705 in a Carter Starter I picked up and I love it Someone before me has improved the knee lever stops, so no complaints there.
It's a great guitar for gigging this summer. I love the weight, feels good, and with the 705 it sounds awesome. |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 26 Apr 2023 11:50 am
|
|
| Good info. Thanks Mike. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 26 Apr 2023 3:50 pm
|
|
| Jon Light wrote: |
| I'm wondering if it's asking too much of a pickup, trying to make a tiny, small-sounding guitar sound bigger. |
I've heard Carter Starters that sounded pretty good! So if it sounds thin, either the pickup is open, or you're using the wrong amp, or you've got the settings wrong. (Try turning the mids down and the bass up. Running the mids high washes out the bass response.)
| Quote: |
| If I could find a simple way to do it, I would replace the string 5 B >A # lower with a first string F# > G raise but these little cross shafts aren't friendly to any off-the-shelf bellcranks (and the C-S cranks are welded on) |
If you just want to switch the #5-lower to the #1-raise, you've already got the puller, and it doesn't have to be moved. Just get a new (longer) rod and bend it so the pull is relatively in-line.
Done deal. 
And if you ever need to "make" a puller, just get a 5/16" or 1/4" wire-rope clamp and fasten a small angle bracket to one end of the u-bolt. (And you can put the clamp on anywhere without removing the crossrod!) Drill a couple of holes in the bracket for the rod, and that problem's solved (for less than $5). Might not look purty, but she'll do the job!  Here's some pictures of one I whipped up in about 15 minutes, the last one showing it mounted on a crossrod:
 |
|
|
|
Mike Beley
From:
Alberta, Canada
|
Posted 6 May 2023 9:00 am
|
|
Thanks for this Donny! I'm doing this today to get a 9th string lower off RKR.
I've already put a 1st string raise on, so after this I'm done, I promise.
Just play the darn thing, ha!! |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 6 May 2023 9:13 am
|
|
| Mike Beley wrote: |
| Thanks for this Donny! I'm doing this today to get a 9th string lower off RKR..... |
You're cutting a slot to allow for the lower finger to move? |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 6 May 2023 9:19 am
|
|
| btw -- update: I put a GL 10-1 in and it is a nice improvement. It has not converted the C-S to a $3000 guitar but I gladly sent a guy home with it knowing it was a decent playing & sounding guitar. At a nice price too. |
|
|
|
Mike Beley
From:
Alberta, Canada
|
Posted 6 May 2023 9:55 pm
|
|
yes Jon, I cut a slot for the lower a couple of weeks ago. It was at that time I realized I immediately needed to put on the return spring!
finally got the bell crank on there today...I had planned to weld one on at a later time, then I saw this great idea on here, so after a trip to the hardware store, it's on there.
The rod took some gentle bending...I could have planned this out better.
It's not pretty but it works.
As long as no one in the audience looks under the guitar, I'm fine! |
|
|
|
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 7 May 2023 2:37 am
|
|
| Mike Beley wrote: |
yes Jon, I cut a slot for the lower a couple of weeks ago. It was at that time I realized I immediately needed to put on the return spring!
finally got the bell crank on there today...I had planned to weld one on at a later time, then I saw this great idea on here, so after a trip to the hardware store, it's on there.
The rod took some gentle bending...I could have planned this out better.
It's not pretty but it works.
As long as no one in the audience looks under the guitar, I'm fine! |
Yep -- with the slot cut out, no spring, and the tension of a string, that finger's gonna move and move fast.
Carter-Starter never was a looker. But with the left-moving knees given real stops, it is real pedal steel guitar (and while I'd complain about the deficiency, it will play ok with the original design and a careful touch). Any steel snob comes along and says something smartass about it can be told 'you are ignorant and you are wrong'.
I bought this guitar that I'd already worked on a couple of years ago and knew pretty well for a price that enabled me to pass it along with zero profit to someone who had made the mistake of buying a home-built guitar that does not play, for a few hundred dollars (that were a few hundred dollars out the window). He now has a real instrument and because he is a really good musician he should be up and running.
If he upgrades to a better guitar, I may try to buy it back so that I can continue to pay it forward.
Of the various reasons why I work on steels, this is the most gratifying. |
|
|
|
