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Topic: Doubleneck tuning |
Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 2:09 am |
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I'm wondering, how many of you doubleneck players use (beside the mandatory 6th-tuning) a kind of "acoustic" tuning like Open-D or Open-G on the second neck.
Until now, I tuned my Stringmaster to A6 and C6. Being much more comfortable with A6, I transfered the remaining three songs that I used to play in C6 (Honey Fingers, Beyond The Reef and Hula Boogie) to A6 and now have a "free" neck ...
Does it make sense to you (since you can easily retune between A6 and C6), to use something completely different on the second neck? |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 4:05 am
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If you have the skills built up from playing acoustic steel guitars and/or love the sound of those open tunings, then they would be great to have on the other neck.
There’s no point in having a tuning that is confusing that’s going to collect dust!
I don’t use an open tuning on my triple neck personally but if I had a quad I would love to have some kind of extended open A to play both low and high bass Hawaiian material, like those old marches.
Historically, the classic tuning to pair with A6th on a double neck (at least for western swing guys) was some variation of E13th.
Hawaiian players would often have C6th and B11th (which is still similar to A6th but different enough from C6th.)
Open E and A6th would be a good combination, especially if you can already play music in those tunings.
E and A (or a step lower: D and G) tunings are a good match because they relate to each other at the same fret positions which can be useful if you want to switch between necks in the same song.
They of course are also the same chord positions as the E and A strings of a standard guitar, if you are coming from that head space.
By comparison, C6th is completely alien!
One of the old E7th tunings would also be a very good partner if you want to keep the open E/D sound without going all the way to E13th.
Underrated today, hi-to-lo E B G# E D B (then G# E if you have 8 strings) is one of my favorite tunings.
It was one of the most used electric tunings by professionals in the 30s (Roy Smeck, Alvino Rey, Dick McIntire, etc.)
Of course, if you’re used to D tunings from acoustic, you could always tune down any E tuning down a step to D.
Rich Arnold uses G6th on his Stringmaster, which is just the same A6th down a step.
For some reason, it came to be that acoustic tunings were in D and G while electrics had the same a step higher in E and A (though A tuning was the original acoustic tuning too before G somehow took over). |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 5:13 am
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I believe G took over on dobro mostly because of Josh Graves tuning to match Earl Scruggs’s banjo in the 50s. Many bluesmen like Robert Johnson used low bass G tuning.
I use G6(EGBDEGBD) and E13 (BDF#G#BC#EG# or EBDG#BC#EG#) on my Fender for Swing and Rockabilly and it matches up well for me because G6 has the low E and B and can be seen as Emin7.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dennis Waltman
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 8:05 am
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This thread is very pertinent to me right now as I have G6 as above on one neck of my Stringmaster D8 and open D strung to six strings on the other neck. Open D is kind of a one trick pony for me as I mainly play Steel Guitar Rag on it with alternating bass on the 6th and 4th strings.
I just bought a '52 Dual 8 Professional which I strung to G6 on one neck but I'm trying to figure out a second 8 string tuning for the other neck. This gives me the luxury of learning s new second tuning without having to tune back and forth while I become fluent in the new tuning.
I play in a Western swing/honky tonk band in WI (Check out The Hankerins FB page).
I'm all ears regarding a second neck tuning option. Does the E13 above allow alignment across necks with G6?
Does the E13 tuning use the same string gauges as G6?
Should I look at other tuning options?
Thanks to bOb for this forum and to all the great members. I have truly learned a great deal from this site and its members.
Thanks, Dennis |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 10:37 am
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| Dennis Waltman wrote: |
I'm all ears regarding a second neck tuning option. Does the E13 above allow alignment across necks with G6?
Does the E13 tuning use the same string gauges as G6?
Should I look at other tuning options?
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Hey Dennis, my Fender Custom is also a ‘52!
Since you’re playing on G6th, you could perhaps try an E13th down a step in D.
If using G6th hi-to-lo D B G E D B G E:
You could probably tune to this D13th with the same gauges if you want experiment with the tuning before stringing up the other neck:
D B A F# E C F# D
Which is the same as Leon McAuliffe’s famous E13th tuning:
E C# B G# F# D G# E
You could also probably try this D13th:
D B F# E C A F# D
Which is the same as Noel Bogg’s famous E13th tuning:
E C# G# F# D B G# E
———————————————
The neck alignment concept is also no deal breaker, don’t let that dissuade you from experimenting.
As far as your specific question about string gauges goes, no, I don’t think that G6th would be compatible with a 13th tuning pitched in E.
John Ely’s site has a really great page with info and a string gauge chart and is a great reference to be familiar with:
https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php
What you can tune to depends on the gauges of course, but you might be able to get a string up to pitch even with heavy ass strings.
Or tune a relatively skinny string too low and get away with it.
You can tune strings (especially wound ones) up surprisingly high before they break, but the tension mounts up fast on the tuners (and sustain and tone suffer).
So something to keep in mind: the lollipop tuners on these Trapezoid Fenders like your Dual Pro (and also on the first gen 26" scale Stringmasters) are problematic as they can strip out.
Not more often than other old tuners necessarily, but the issue is that replacing lollipop tuners is not easy as they are integrally connected (welded?) to the whole tuning pan so you can't just swap them out.
It’s not the end of the world if the worm on a lollipop tuner strips out, the tuner can definitely be fixed by someone with the skills to do it (not me  ).
But it is a pain in the ass, versus, say, the ease of changing the tuners on post ‘54 Stringmasters.
Trapezoid Fenders are quirky; the tuners are problematic, the pickups are susceptible to dying (Nick Fryer can rewind them), the plastic in the pickups can expand and buzz on the strings, the bridge is just a metal ridge that strings can wear grooves on, the nut slots are hardly slots so there is uneven string spacing, the fretboard markers are (I’ve read) ever slightly off, the bulky pickups make playing up high cramped, the balance with three legs is way worse than four, changing strings is also cramped and is a pain in the ass, etc.
The Stringmaster fixed all these problems:
4 legs that spread out, threaded bridge, kluson tuners, interchangeable nuts, more orthodox reliable pickups.
Yet trapezoid pickups sound so good that I’d choose those models any day!
I hope you like your new guitar!  |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 1:58 pm
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Well, now I'm really getting interested in E13 tuning ...
My Stringmaster is a 6 string, so: What tuning from high to low, please? |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 7:18 pm
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I've used the Leon McCauliffe E13 tuning (minus the low E and G#) on a six string guitar. There are a couple of Z-shaped pockets that let you emulate the "A pedal" sound of an E9th pedal steel.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 30 Mar 2023 11:53 pm
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You could try the E13th as above adapted for 6 strings: E C# B G# F# D
Another option I would try first is the Noel Boggs variant, though I do personally prefer an E13th with both the high C# and the B.
It is possible you won't have to change your current strings depending on what your starting tuning is!
The reason I’m recommending this tuning is it gives a little more range, and is more suited to 6 strings in my opinion.
But more importantly, if you are in an experimental mood, so many tunings fit the same string gauges.
Here is the Noel Boggs tuning and some great classic tunings you should be able to get from the same strings! Experiment!
(Leon E13th on the contrary requires (ideally) special gauges. But you could try it a step down: D B A F# E C)
| Tab: |
E C# G# F# D B - Boggs E13th
E B G# F# D B - E9th
E B G# E D B - E7th
E C# G# E D B - C#min7th
E C# G# E C# A# - F#9th
E C# A E C# A - A Hi-Bass
E C# A F# C# A - A6th
E C# A F# D# B - B11th
E C A F D B - G11th
E C A G E C - C6th
E C A F E C# - C6/A7th
E C A G E Bb - C13th
E C A F# E C - D9th
D C Bb G E C# - Leavitt
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Four classic tunes by Noel Boggs on his tuning:
Lover [I think E13th] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxDuOG3oNhk
Little Coquette - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDbzPqrjhF4
Paradise Isle [on any tuning with top 3 strings E C# G# sliding into forward slant gives a 9th chord that sounds amazing] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwA-6E98fFs
Alabama Bound - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udcnp5XlB1M
Lee Jeffries also has some videos of him playing with the tuning solo, although he tunes up a half-step to F:
Cherokee - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4gAzMHOUjA
Rose Room -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5uEWJN3gqY
A Rubato Jazzy Happy Birthday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAl4-J__DVY |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 31 Mar 2023 4:51 am
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| Peter Funk wrote: |
| Well, now I'm really getting interested in E13 tuning ... My Stringmaster is a 6 string, so: What tuning from high to low, please? |
Obviously the fact that you have a 2x 6 string does change the discussion because an open tuning like A, G or D works well on 6 string whereas say A6 is (IMO) more useful on an 8 string. I say this because I like the 5th on string 1.
I mainly use a double 8 string and in addition to A6, I favour an extended B11. However I do keep a little 6 string lap steel strung for "high A6" (so E on 1, C# on 6). If I had a dual 6 string I would probably go for the "high A6" and B11. I am a great fan of B11 because it is so chord-rich and, as the first four strings are the same as A6, the two tunings a complimentary.
I have recently started to experiment with E13. It is very "Western Swing" oriented and I particularly like the upper strings for the "horn section" sound. If that sounds fun then for a 6 string, I suggest you try (hi to lo):
1 E
2 C#
3 B
4 G#
5 F#
6 D
So reviewing what I have written, you could keep a "high A6" on one neck, knowing that you only have to change strings 5 & 6 to get to B11 and experiment with E13 on the other neck!
Never forget - It should be fun!
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 1 Apr 2023 6:53 am
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Okay, so by now, I have tuned the outer neck to Leon's E13 (tuned down one step to D13). Sounds very interesting
But I have no clue, where to start from. Any advice on songs or maybe tabs? Where are the basic chords?
Many thanks in advance ... |
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Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
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Posted 1 Apr 2023 11:47 am
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I have A11 on my soloing (upper neck), which is also open G on the top few strings
Santo’s C#m7 on the rhythm (lower, close) neck, which is a lot like E13
_________________
Santo Fan Club - from the island of Coney to the sands of Rockaway
Jill Martini & The Shrunken Heads
All aloha, all the time |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 2 Apr 2023 6:11 am
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| Peter Funk wrote: |
Okay, so by now, I have tuned the outer neck to Leon's E13 (tuned down one step to D13). Sounds very interesting
But I have no clue, where to start from. Any advice on songs or maybe tabs? Where are the basic chords?
... |
Yeah right, that's a challenge. A much talked-about tuning but little material to get started. I would recommend learning Leon's "Blue Guitar Stomp" which is very easy and the E13 comes to life when you try the big chord stuff. That's where I am now. "Steel Guitar Rag" seems to work but I am still re-thinking that one!
It's quite easy to create solos with, you just have to remember the root is on string one so playing a scale run, choose where you want to have the root on a lower string. I am tending towards using the F# string to play the root two frets below where the octave is on the first string. Most of the other notes are on a straight bar. Example: If you play a B (German H !) on the 5th fret of the F# string, then the remainder of a pentatonic scale are found on strings 5 - 1 at fret 7.
Apart for the 6/min 7 and dom 7/9/13 chords, I haven't found much else yet and I am not yet sure if this tuning is really thought of for being chord-rich, (hence my love of A6 and B11) but I really love the "big chord" phrases that E13 offers.
I do think I can hear a lot of Jeremy Wakefield phrases in E13 so that may help you. I am still at "step 1" and not sure how much I can use it in my current projects. But hey, if I ever had a triple 8 
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 6 Apr 2023 11:25 am Re: Doubleneck tuning
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| Peter Funk wrote: |
I'm wondering, how many of you doubleneck players use (beside the mandatory 6th-tuning) a kind of "acoustic" tuning like Open-D or Open-G on the second neck.
Until now, I tuned my Stringmaster to A6 and C6. Being much more comfortable with A6, I transfered the remaining three songs that I used to play in C6 (Honey Fingers, Beyond The Reef and Hula Boogie) to A6 and now have a "free" neck ...
Does it make sense to you (since you can easily retune between A6 and C6), to use something completely different on the second neck? |
I’d be tempted to use a tuning that offers what A6 doesn’t. Possibly a 9th or Major9th with a lower bass.
Maybe GBDFAD or GBDF#AD
Simpler and with a lower bass, might be E7, E B E G♯ B D or E D E G♯ B E
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 7 Apr 2023 6:29 am
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| Peter Funk wrote: |
Okay, so by now, I have tuned the outer neck to Leon's E13 (tuned down one step to D13). Sounds very interesting
But I have no clue, where to start from. Any advice on songs or maybe tabs? Where are the basic chords?
Many thanks in advance ... |
Other than the obvious E dom chords you also have D6 (D F# B) and Dmaj7 D (D F# C#)
The G#(Ab) and D notes are the 3rd and b7th of the E chord AND the b7th and 3rd of Bb7. Now B is the b9 and C# is #9.
Bm B D F#
C#m7 C# E G# B
And if you want quartal harmony F# B E is a series of 4th's |
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