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Topic: See the difference: “High” and “Presence” on Nashville 112 |
Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 9:25 am |
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I conducted a test for myself and thought I would share the results. If you've ever wondered what is going on in a Nashville 112 that makes the "high" control different from the "presence" control, here it is in visual form. In short, the "high" control boosts or cuts a bell shape right at about 7 kilohertz while the "presence" controls a gently-sloped high-shelf EQ starting below 800 hertz.
The takeaway for me is that presence is a broad-stroke brush to overall brightness, while the high knob is more narrowly focused at the top end of the EQ spectrum.
EDITED POST 02/16/23: Edited to improve graphs and post a complete set here in a single posting at the top:
Last edited by Brian Spratt on 16 Feb 2023 5:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Chuck Walker
From:
Cody, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 10:31 am
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| Brian, I've often wondered what the difference was between the two. Your graphs are a great pictorial representation of the frequency response. From them, I think your takeaway is right on the money. Thanks for sharing. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 10:56 am
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| Very good information. Thanks |
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Bryce Van Parys
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 1:01 pm
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This is great. Could you do something to show the mids, with the sweep?
Thanks
Bryce
_________________
Bryce
Double bass, Mike Lull V4, G&L SB2 electric bass, Stratocaster, Telecaster, Les Paul, Martin D18GE, |
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Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 7:16 pm More EQ Graphs for Nashville 112
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At Bryce's request, here are additional graphs covering all the EQ knobs on the Nashville 112.
EDITED 02/16/2023: Intentionally removed pictures here and updated pictures on the original posting.
Last edited by Brian Spratt on 16 Feb 2023 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JB Bobbitt
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 7:24 pm
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Thanks. What do you use to record and produce the graphs?
Thanks a heap, in advance,
-jbb
_________________
"Time is an enemy"
-Bob Dylan |
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Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 7:57 pm
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JB, here's the process I used:
First, I have a white noise audio file that I load into my DAW on my computer. For me, that's Ableton Live, but any DAW will work.
Then, play the audio file and route the audio from the white noise from a physical output on your PC or audio interface to the input of your amp. I use a reamping device for this to keep the signal level and impedance in line with what a guitar pickup produces. This is the signal level the amp is designed to take. Any reamping box will work, but I use a Radial EXTC-SA.
With the white noise now going into my amp, I used the line out of the amp and ran that directly back into my audio interface on my computer and monitor that signal.
I applied an audio spectrum analyzer VST plugin on that monitored input channel. The spectrum analyzer plugin GUI displays the graphs I posted. I used the free spectrum analyzer SPAN created by Voxengo.
That's the process... it sounds more complicated than it really is. In short, you're just sending white noise to your amp input, then routing the amps output back into the computer to monitor it.
It occurred to me just as I was writing this that I didn't properly calibrate the slope of the EQ curve. If you look at the very first EQ curve I posted with no EQ applied, I should have calibrated that so that it was a nearly horizontal line. The graphs are still all valid relative to that initial baseline, but I think it's more useful if your baseline is actually flat and not sloped. I'll re-do this exercise and with a recalibrated baseline and post updates when I get a chance. |
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Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2023 4:55 pm
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| I removed the pictures that I posted previously and updated my original posting with a full set of properly calibrated/sloped graphs. These graphs are a more realistic depiction of the frequency response. I don't know why Voxengo SPAN sets a slope modifier of +4 by default. I forgot to set it to 0 when I did my original set of graphs which skewed the results posted originally. |
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Mike Wilson
From:
Mansfield, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2023 8:17 am
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| Brian Spratt wrote: |
JB, here's the process I used:
First, I have a white noise audio file that I load into my DAW on my computer. For me, that's Ableton Live, but any DAW will work.
Then, play the audio file and route the audio from the white noise from a physical output on your PC or audio interface to the input of your amp. I use a reamping device for this to keep the signal level and impedance in line with what a guitar pickup produces. This is the signal level the amp is designed to take. Any reamping box will work, but I use a Radial EXTC-SA.
With the white noise now going into my amp, I used the line out of the amp and ran that directly back into my audio interface on my computer and monitor that signal.
I applied an audio spectrum analyzer VST plugin on that monitored input channel. The spectrum analyzer plugin GUI displays the graphs I posted. I used the free spectrum analyzer SPAN created by Voxengo.
That's the process... it sounds more complicated than it really is. In short, you're just sending white noise to your amp input, then routing the amps output back into the computer to monitor it.
It occurred to me just as I was writing this that I didn't properly calibrate the slope of the EQ curve. If you look at the very first EQ curve I posted with no EQ applied, I should have calibrated that so that it was a nearly horizontal line. The graphs are still all valid relative to that initial baseline, but I think it's more useful if your baseline is actually flat and not sloped. I'll re-do this exercise and with a recalibrated baseline and post updates when I get a chance. |
You lost me after "here's the process I used. LOL |
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JB Bobbitt
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2023 5:54 pm
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| Brian Spratt wrote: |
| JB, here's the process I used: |
I grok, thank you for the detail. There's much I don't understand.
I use Audacity (free) and WavePad (cheap, no affiliation), both of which have spectrum analyzers. I downloaded the spectrum analyzer (SPAN) you referenced, and found it's not stand-alone. In Audacity, it shows up in the list of plug-ins (both VST2 and VST3 versions). I can "Plot Spectrum" and produce graphs similar to yours, but there's no way to select SPAN or another analyzer, and no way to tell if SPAN is used.
Screenshot of Audacity and spectrum (a simple D2 note recorded from my lap steel through Spark amp and recorded using Audacity):
For comparison, this is a screenshot of WavePad screen showing the same input file:
And the WavePad screen showing the white noise input:
Like I said, there's much I don't understand yet. Thanks again.
-jbb
_________________
"Time is an enemy"
-Bob Dylan |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 19 Feb 2023 6:31 pm
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Great graphs Brian!
JR because the input white noise is the same power at all frequencies the the result is very close to what a circuit simulator would graph if you made a schematic matching the NV 112, or if you did it manually by sweeping a sine wave oscillator into the actual amp and plotting it on graph paper.
Also analagous would be the guitar amp tone section simulators on the net such as this one from quite a while ago.
http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2023 6:38 pm
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JB, your first picture with the purple “frequency analysis” is the tool you need. It’s doing the same thing as Voxengo SPAN.
You’ve got the idea right playing a single note but you’ll want to find a white noise file to take full frequency analysis-at-once measurements. The white noise is a signal that plays every frequency at exactly the same amplitude. So when you monitor it you get a straight horizontal line with no frequencies louder than any others. You should be able to do this by just swapping out the note you recorded for a clip of white noise. Email me if you want a white noise wav file and I’ll send it to you.
Once you’ve got that and you can see it flat across your frequency analysis you need to route that sound to a physical output and send it to your amp. Turn your amp master volume down because it’s a pretty hideous noise like a crt tv with no signal.
Getting that signal to your amp can be done just about any way you can with adapters and cables. Though the ideal scenario is a reamping box if you have one.
Then send the line out of the amp into another track in audacity and put your frequency analyzer on that incoming signal. You can then watch that horizontal white noise line move in real time as you start turning knobs on your amp. |
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Bryce Van Parys
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2023 12:45 pm
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So the Presence looks like a wider frequency range than the high, so how do they really work in tandem? Wouldn't turning up the presence cancel out the high setting at some point and just broaden the range ?
_________________
Bryce
Double bass, Mike Lull V4, G&L SB2 electric bass, Stratocaster, Telecaster, Les Paul, Martin D18GE, |
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Brian Spratt
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2023 9:05 am
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| Bryce Van Parys wrote: |
| So the Presence looks like a wider frequency range than the high, so how do they really work in tandem? Wouldn't turning up the presence cancel out the high setting at some point and just broaden the range ? |
Bryce, I think of it like basic addition and subtraction. The High knob can add or subtract volume right around 7 khz. Presence can add or subtract volume most starting around 800 hz and it does so with more intensity as the frequency increases all the way up to the top of the range. With that conceptualization, now you can just take the two knobs together and realize that they can "fight" each other or magnify each other depending on which direction (up or down) the knobs are going. In other words, you can boost 7 khz with the high knob, but you can boost it EVEN MORE if you also start increasing the Presence. You can get some interesting results if you start turning one up and one down as they start to "fight" each other. But consider that the "shape" of their boosting and cutting isn't identical, so you get some peaks and troughs when you set them in opposite directions. I've included examples of just that here.
Here is High at +15 with Presence at -15. You still see the clear peak at 7 khz but all of the high end has been pulled down "together", maintaining the 7K peak "shape":
Here is High at -15 with Presence at +15. You clearly see the 7 khz cut, but with the Presence boost the rest of the high end stays nearly flat. Notice the very highest frequencies are still more boosted here than they are above.
Here's both knobs at -15:
Here's both knobs at +15:
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 7:26 am
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Brian,
I sent you an email.
Thank you for your attention.
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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