Help broke rod

Jerry Miller · Posted 14 Feb 2023 11:26 am

As you can see its broke. 85 zumsteel E9 neck 9th string lower. What can I get one of these?

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

Contact Bruce Zumsteg. He might have some spare parts left over.

Scott Denniston · From: Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA

If you can't find that particular rod they are pretty easy to make yourself. Keep the old one and you can get the bend to match up. All you need is the proper diameter rod, the correct die for threading it, and a fresh nylon tuning nut. Here's where I bought my last bunch of 1/8" rod >>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HK1W22P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 They of course have other diameters. The 6-32 thread dies (if using 1/8" rod) can usually be found at the hardware store.

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Contact Billy Knowles here on the Forum. Could do it by looking at the pic and a phone call, I'd bet. Give him a shout out. Or mail it to me.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

The small piece of rod shown in the picture. Is that a 90 degree bend that hooks into the Bell Crank, That broke off?

If a 90 degree bend is required to make the rod, Into a heavy piece of steel. Drill a 1/8" hole deep as the leg, Is long. At a 2 degree angle. If a grove or hole is needed to secure the rod to the Bell Crank, Do that work first. Then insert the rod into hole and use a hammer to bend a tight sharp angle in the rod. So the rod will not interfere with other rods, Under the guitar. Then cut the rod to length and thread the end for Tuning Nut.

From working on MSA Steels I would use a 6-40 die to make the threads. The finer threads make it easier to exact tune the Nylon Hex Nuts.

Good Luck in this project and Happy Steelin.
Edited to do the bend before cutting and threading.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Hopefully, someone here has what you need. You're better off if you can find the proper rod. 85 era rod dia. should be 1/8 with the pin that fits the crank slot... 1/16 in. roll pin as shown in the top photo.

They can be made with the proper tools, but it's a tedious job.

I made a couple like the one shown here with the right angle hook. The crank is H style so one bend is sufficient for most applications.

Only problem with this is that is also labor intensive. Only stainless steel is strong enough for a bend that small or it won't hold up.

I made the bend first, then sized the crook with a dremel. I don't believe it would stand a bend after the fact.

I still have the rod at the bottom of the photo. It is 11 in. long and threaded, but as you can see, it has an offset bend. You're welcome to it if you want it.

Michael Yahl · From: Troy, Texas!

I have all sizes of rods already threaded.

https://www.psgparts.com/Pull-Rods_c18.htm
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Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Jerry turned on the light. I had not seen it before because the pic was blurry when I enlarged it. The broken one pictured, is the compression pin type, that broke at the pin hole. Mr. Z probably made changes to them after several failures at that weak point. Easy fix with the proper tools and patience. Did't Fessys use a bent rod with a similar bell crank?

Jerry Miller · Posted 15 Feb 2023 7:38 am

Thank you all for the responses. I think I will try and contact Bruce and see what he has. Jerry Overstreet thank you for the offer I might take you up on that if I have no success finding anything. And Mike Yahl I will look into what you have I also sent you and email via your website concerning the nylon tuners.

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Hi Jerry.

I just made a bunch of these style Zum rods for a guitar on the bench at my shop. I even made a cute little press out of an old watch crystal press to push in the roll pins. If you can send me the exact dims, I can make you a replacement. If you are comfortable threading 1/8 aluminum rod I can just send you a rod or two with the pin in.

Patrick@tenstringsadmachine.com
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Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Just for future reference, here is how I make pull rods that use a 1/16" roll pin inserted in the end. Zum, Franklin, and maybe others have used this method to construct pull rods.

Make a small drilling jig. I used brass hex for this one.
Drill a centered hole slightly oversized for a 1/8" pull rod. I used a #30 drill bit ~ .128".
Then drill a 1/16" hole centered directly over the hole you just drilled that will give you a cross hole at the position you want. No need to use an oversized drill bit. This will work on aluminum and stainless pull rods.

Insert the pull rod into the hole at the end and drill carefully with the 1/16" drill bit (lubricated).

Now you have a perfectly centered cross hole. I also use this method to get the cross holes for ZB, BMI, and other guitars that have a cross hole through the pull rod for the little hair pins.

You can insert the pin with pliers but it can be a bit tedious. I repurposed this old watchmakers crystal press. I made a top die that holds the pin in place in a slightly oversized hole with a magnet, and a bottom anvil with a hole to allow the pin to be pressed through.

Put on your glasses, line up the hole, and presto!

Thread the other end with a #5-40 thread die. #4-40 will produce a very weak thread on 1/8" aluminum rod. Aluminum is pretty easy to thread, just use a little cutting oil or lubrication. I do it on a lathe, but you should be able to thread the rod by holding it in a vice with soft or rubber jaws. Stainless would be a bit more difficult without a lathe.

If you are making replacement tuner nuts, the hole size for the tuner nuts needs to be a bit larger for aluminum rods than stainless since the aluminum is considerably weaker and the nylon tuner nut can easily break the rod if it is too snug. I drill out replacement nylon tuners with a #32 drill bit (.116") to avoid breakage.

When I rebuild my own guitars, I will usually replace old aluminum pull rods with new stainless rods since they are so much more durable and hold a tuning better since you can keep the nylon tuning nuts really snug without worrying about breaking the pull rod. Unfortunately the Zum I just finished working on has 37 pulls on an extended E9. 7 foot pedals and 6 knee levers.....It also didn't need a rebuild, the customer just wanted more pulls added to his copedent.
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Thanks, Patrick, for that presentation. I love picking up tips & tricks and this one -- drilling holes in round rod (as opposed to the flattened rods of a P/P) is great. I'm not sure I can achieve it with my cheap woodshop drill press with a spindle that wanders but still....

Also -- my dad spent his working life in the watch business (Bulova) and he also had a small workshop at home that included a devise of that sort (the press). I never had a clue what it was. No, I don't still have it. Oh well.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Good stuff there Patrick. I might just steal your idea next time I need those pin type pull rods.

I could never drill a centered hole like in your brass hex rod jig, but I can find a brass or aluminum hex stand off. Either for #6 screw, which is a little bit larger than 1/8 or 3mm and open up the hole to 1/8.

I could drill the cross hole in aluminum or tig rod, but I have a hard time drilling the 1/16 hole in stainless steel. Bits won't stand up. I'm using a drill press though, no lathe, shopsmsith or such. Thanks for the information.

Patrick Timmins · From: Seattle

Hi Jerry.

For stainless you need to use a good bit and oil and just peck away. I have ruined the drill jig by breaking a drill bit off in the jig due to not being patient enough, or forgetting to brush a smidge of cutting oil on the drill bit. Most of my drill bits are highspeed steel with TiN or other coating. I do use some cobalt as well.
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I hear you. Thanks. I have some high end bits. It's just that 1/16 is so small. I chuck it up really short leaving as little as needed to penetrate the workpiece and yes, I use cutting oil too and go slow so as not to overheat the stuff and ruin the bit. It helps to let the chips out too especially in blind holes.

I guess my patience is just too thin!

Jerry Miller · Posted 21 Feb 2023 2:13 pm

Thanks everyone for the responses. I contacted Bruce and he is making me one. Patrick I definitely will keep you in mind if this happens again and I think it will this the second rod that has broke.

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