Yet again: The Franklin Pedal

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Hi all,

I had Jerry Fessenden put the "Franklin" change on my new guitar, split between pedal four lowering 5 and 10 a whole step and LKR lowering 6 a whole step (a change I already had and use quite a lot on its own).

I have been trying out various uses I can ferret out of old posts on the forum, and I see how lowering 5 and 6 together is a change I could utilize. What I have not seen is a lot of use for the lower on string 10 in this combination. Am I missing something, or is string 10 included for "symmetry" of a sort? I suppose it's like raising 10 on the A pedal; allows one to invert the chord (going from a 4-5-6 grip to a 6-8-10 grip).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. For what it's worth, here's my current copedent:



		LKL	LKV	LKR	 P1	P2	P3	P4	RKL	RKR


1	F#	 	+G#		 	  	 		 	 


2	D#	 	+E		 	 	 		 	D/C#


3	G#	 	 	 	 	+A	 		 	 


4	E	+F	 	 	 	 	+F#		D#	 


5	B	 	 	 	+C#	 	+C#	-A	 	 


6	G#	 		-F#	 	+A	 		 	 


7	F#	 	+G		 	 	 		 	 


8	E	+F	 	 	 	 			D#	 


9	D	 	 	 	 	 	 		 	C#


10	B	 	 	 	-A	 	+C#	-A

Dan

------------------
Dan Beller-McKenna
Big Red
Blue TrainDurham, NH

[This message was edited by Dan Beller-McKenna on 10 December 2006 at 06:10 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i'm not much of a reference in the matter but i find that the whole tone lower on string 10 is quite handy
w: pedal B at O fret try playin' in D
(root on string 9)
then P4 will give you that drop to A on string 10 & back up to D on string 9

i mess around playin' in B7 so i like P4 when it brings things down to a low A
i did'nt have that lower before i got the PF pedal

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

As i have stated before i am now unable to use pedals.As i have posted before i have had my 9th and 10 atring reversed ever since i went to 10 string about 37 years ago.When i still used an 8 string i reversed he 7th and 8th.I lowered my 5th and 9th.Got that from Julian Thorpe back in te early 70's.Which woudld be the 5th and 10th on the standard E 9rth When the Franklin change came out as what is most steel players 9th string is my 10th.That gets the (9 th for 7th chords out of the way so can play full C 6th chords with out having to skip over the 9th string.ANd makes a great major 7thh chord by holding the A&B pedals down and moving up 2 frets.
Another great thing about the reversed 9 and 10th it puts the strings 5,6,7,,8,and what is most players 10th together.It is easy to do the Franklin change with a bar slant.
And for those of you who might not use this slant will be amazed how easy it is to do after some pracitce.And for many of the old timers like me gives you something new to work on.I am looking forward to going back to a non pedal steel if the insurance companies ever get off thier duffs.
To be honest and it is only my own opinion,it is almost impossible to come up with something that hasn't been played to death.I am looking at it from a players view point as i do not play out any longer.
And i won't ever have to play Slver Wings again.A private joke amomg my self and some other OT players i used to work with.
Hope i caught all my typos that time.

[This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 11 December 2006 at 01:21 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 11 December 2006 at 01:26 AM.]

Tommy Alexander · From: Friendswood, Texas 77546

Dan,
Paul Franklin has a 30 minute plus course on the 4th pedal drop 5,6 and 10. Call Pauls Mom or Dad and they can tell you about it.

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Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Tommy,

Crowbear: I already drop 10 a whole step on my A pedal, but I tend to use it with A+B down, gives me a low root, also a nice full maj7 chord with B up. I'll play with the 9th string root with 10th lowered.

Dan

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I think it is possible that we are looking at this thru a very small window.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Tony,
??
I don't get your drift.

Dan

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Dan, usually in reading threads where we are seeking info about the use of a raise or lower, some comments show up which state that the player cannot find a use for the change or even as stated above,

"it is almost impossible to come up with something that hasn't been played to death" .

Generally all that means is that we are not thinking out of the box but rather we keep going back to the same mold.

The 6 string guitar and tuning has been around for centuries..I am thinking that new stuff arrives all the time, it's up to the individual player to rise to the moment.

the Steel is no different, it's an instrument..without the player it's useless.

Later today I will record a few practice phrases that I use the 10,6 and 5 lower as part of a routine and post it. I am clearly not an expert but I do have the passion for practice routines which place these out of the box phrases into a common setting so that if I can remember, and thats the ticket, I can use them on gigs without thinking about them.

My personal opinion about comments referring to raises and lowers is that they are scale phrases, not chord builders, even though in a legal sense they are. IF we think in SCALE phrasing rather than CHORD phrasing I am of the opinion that the fretboard opens up, at least it does for me.

I think these are great topics though...

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Tony,

I agree: many changes are better though of as scale passages, and that's exactly what I'm searching for with the Franklin pedal, especially on string 10.

Dan

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Actually, on second thought, I'd say that changes are about melody AND harmony; i.e., it is hard (impossible?) to think of melodic phrases divorced from a harmonic context (at least in Western popular music).

Dan

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I may have used the worng termonology in my post.
To put it simple i doubt very much any one is going to come up with a new lick,run or what ever that some one else hasn't already done.
Back when i worked out of Nashville some one would say to grandpa Jones,i just wrote a new song.Grandpa would answer, great.Whats it the tune to? lol

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I'm not saying this is the answer, but I do feel with changes such as this one it must be placed into a regular practice routine of sorts before it "opens up". I feel this is true of any change that may not be on familar turf.

here are two excercises I try to play often, they are simple improvised 1,4,5 melodies. I think of the moving notes more as pieces of scales rather than what chords they are.

the first is played only on the 8 and 5 string using several positions and pulls. key of C. This 8+5 thing can be very powefull, I think any melody can be played out of these positions once the phrasing/tonality is understood.

This one uses AB, AF, E raise, E lower and 5th Lower.I added this one here as it is relative to the next one. It's basically the same melody played out of totally different postions and also starts to answer the question of what do I do with the Bb lever.

The second is pretty much the same improvised melody using the 4th pedal along with AB, AF and probably more ..At the end of the 4th ped exercise is a resolving scale bring the 10th string down a whole tone.

I don't know if this is new stuff or not, but it is for me !

And do keep in mind that I am a nothing more than a weekend HACK...

8+5 excercise http://www.tprior.com/8+5.MP3

4th ped exercise http://www.tprior.com/fourped.MP3

and speaking of Silver Wings, I applied my little 8+5 deal along with the 4th ped and this is what came out..
http://www.tprior.com/wings.MP3

Happy Tuesday

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 December 2006 at 05:13 AM.]

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Tony,
I don't have the Franklin pedal, but this works out what I do have and had forgotten in the long lay off. Thanks again, DS

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Tony.

Sweet! I especially like the final cadence in Silver Wings, and I assume that is the Franklin pedal going down against 8th string lowered (???)

I still am not hearing much from the Franklin pedal on string 10, which gets back to my initial inquiry.

In any case, very nice and very helpful.

Dan

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Dan,if its the final phrase you are referring to that is the 9th string lower.

thanks
t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 December 2006 at 02:59 PM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"My personal opinion about comments referring to raises and lowers is that they are scale phrases, not chord builders"

Hmmmm...that gives me a whole new process to think about. I've never thought of changes in terms of scales...but I don't think in terms of scales at all anyway; I always center things around chord positions and "pockets".

For me it'd be reinventing the wheel - I'd have to *learn* a bunch of scales before figuring out how they're changed!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Jim, I think your looking at it to seriously..When I think of scale phrases I think of one or two notes under or one or two notes above..and attempt, note I said attempt..to understand what pulls will give me those notes under or notes over.

I think, as Jeff Newman once told me..very generically..It doesn't matter where you are, you can always play one or two notes under or over..

we all know that the E levers raise and lower..those are notes above and notes under the natural, who cares what the actual names of the notes are, we all know you can get 3 notes using the levers with the natural root.

Of course we can name the notes if we are in front of a firing squad, but I think whats more important is knowing that those changes are there, and how to apply them.

thats how I think.....I think.

But I also think in terms of chords as well, it's kinda like using the part of my brain thats been idle for most of my life I suppose..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 December 2006 at 09:48 AM.]

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

Sliding between the 8+5 intervals up and down the neck is a very powerful technique. You can apply this same approach on 3+5 and 5+6 and 4+6 and various other string combos. Learning all those and being able to tie them together both horizontally and vertically on the neck is something I practice a lot.

BTW and assuming you have the F#-G# on 1 and B-Bb on 5. The 8+5 intervals that you get using the A pedal and the string 8 E-D# can be duplicated up a fifth with the 1+5 changes I mentioned, check it out.

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