| Author |
Topic: Resonator amplification options? |
David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2023 7:57 pm |
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On my fiberglass 8 string dobro I use the lace magnetic pickup
thru a roland cube 60 using the acoustic setting. not a dobro sound but not a electric lap steel sound either . I also use only 7 of the strings |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 1:08 am
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| do you think the 'donut' pickup could potentially be useful in that limited situation, and is the active version any better than the passive version, i.e., |
To this, emphasizing "potentially", I cautiously say yes. With short cable runs, small stages you can get by with the passive pickup. The install on both is a tad "quirky". Follow directions to the letter.
I started out with the old McIntyre spider mounted transducer pickup decades ago. Similar to the Schertler which is still available and in my case, it sounded ok but feedback was the issue.
Speaking of the Schertler. Dave, this might be worth investigating. It sounded fine. Better than the donut imho. Pricey. ... |
Thanks Howard. I'll see if I can find one of the Schertlers. As far as I can see, they're out of production now, and every source I can find is sold out. But one will undoubtedly pop up. I tried one of these years ago on a banjo - it was very good. I sold the banjo and the pickup went with it.
In the meantime, I may try a K&K Twin-Spot using Jake's methodology. Or maybe a K&K Mini - not exactly sure where I'd put the 3rd sensor, maybe underneath the top. Cheap enough to try and then use on something else if it doesn't work.
| Quote: |
| On my fiberglass 8 string dobro I use the lace magnetic pickup .. |
Which model? There's the 'dobro'-specific version here - https://lacemusic.com/collections/9/products/dobro-neck-sensor-round-neck-3-8-tall
and an acoustic sensor here - https://lacemusic.com/collections/9/products/ultra-slim-acoustic-usa-sensor
I might get away with one of these - the string spacing is a bit tight at only 2.5" and the spacing between the screened holes is very close to 2.75". They're definitely thin enough - the spacing from strings to top of guitar is about 7/8", these are much thinner than that.
Thanks for all the info guys. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 6:08 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
In the meantime, I may try a K&K Twin-Spot using Jake's methodology. Or maybe a K&K Mini - not exactly sure where I'd put the 3rd sensor, maybe underneath the top... |
I recall from talking to Carl McIntire years ago that the far legs of the spider turned out to be the best mounting place. It minimized bar scrape sounds but still transferred the sound of the strings. He also thought that the material used to affix the pickup made a big difference, which is why he used a particular type of black goop made by 3M. I wouldn’t recommend Super Glue or any thin mounting tape, like you’d use mounting a K+K on a guitar bridge plate. I’d see no use in putting a sensor on the wooden top of a dobro. That was the first thing I ever tried back in ‘75 and it was useless.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 7:06 am
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| Thanks for the tips, Kevin. Yup, sounds like the Twin-Spot would be the way to go if I want to try that approach. It makes sense that the adhesive material could make a signnificant difference owing to its potential impact on dampening extraneous mechanical noises. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 11:31 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| Howard Parker wrote: |
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| do you think the 'donut' pickup could potentially be useful in that limited situation, and is the active version any better than the passive version, i.e., |
To this, emphasizing "potentially", I cautiously say yes. With short cable runs, small stages you can get by with the passive pickup. The install on both is a tad "quirky". Follow directions to the letter.
I started out with the old McIntyre spider mounted transducer pickup decades ago. Similar to the Schertler which is still available and in my case, it sounded ok but feedback was the issue.
Speaking of the Schertler. Dave, this might be worth investigating. It sounded fine. Better than the donut imho. Pricey. ... |
Thanks Howard. I'll see if I can find one of the Schertlers. As far as I can see, they're out of production now, and every source I can find is sold out. But one will undoubtedly pop up. I tried one of these years ago on a banjo - it was very good. I sold the banjo and the pickup went with it.
In the meantime, I may try a K&K Twin-Spot using Jake's methodology. Or maybe a K&K Mini - not exactly sure where I'd put the 3rd sensor, maybe underneath the top. Cheap enough to try and then use on something else if it doesn't work.
| Quote: |
| On my fiberglass 8 string dobro I use the lace magnetic pickup .. |
Which model? There's the 'dobro'-specific version here - https://lacemusic.com/collections/9/products/dobro-neck-sensor-round-neck-3-8-tall
and an acoustic sensor here - https://lacemusic.com/collections/9/products/ultra-slim-acoustic-usa-sensor
I might get away with one of these - the string spacing is a bit tight at only 2.5" and the spacing between the screened holes is very close to 2.75". They're definitely thin enough - the spacing from strings to top of guitar is about 7/8", these are much thinner than that.
Thanks for all the info guys. |
This one is 2.75" https://mgbguitars.com/collections/pickups/products/k-nine-bass-flat-pup
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Matthew Walton
From:
Fort Worth, Texas
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 1:00 pm
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Random thought: I wonder if you could get Rich Barbera interested in making a custom pickup. The great thing about Barbera Transducers pickups is that the saddle is the pickup, and the actual element is right against the string. I have one on my classical and adore it. Super even output, super feedback-resistant.
My biggest concern would be whether it would lose too much of the resonator sound. My classical still sounds like a classical, and the archtop still sounds like an archtop , but it's still something to think about.
Anybody want to drop a cool $300 on a lark?
_________________
If something I wrote can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
1981 MSA "The Universal" Bb6 S-12 9/5 | 2024 Excel Robostar Bb6 S-12 8/5 | 2009 MSA SuperSlide C6 S-12 | Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 1:24 pm
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| Matthew Walton wrote: |
Random thought: I wonder if you could get Rich Barbera interested in making a custom pickup. The great thing about Barbera Transducers pickups is that the saddle is the pickup, and the actual element is right against the string. I have one on my classical and adore it. Super even output, super feedback-resistant.
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That'a the design of the Fishman "Nashville" where the pickup IS the bridge insert and requires slotting as as the standard insert would. Six string Ver. = $209 for the raw (unslotted) pickup.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Jan 2023 3:36 pm
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Don't see how I could lose at $12.00! Thanks.
| Quote: |
Random thought: I wonder if you could get Rich Barbera interested in making a custom pickup. The great thing about Barbera Transducers pickups is that the saddle is the pickup, and the actual element is right against the string. I have one on my classical and adore it. Super even output, super feedback-resistant.
My biggest concern would be whether it would lose too much of the resonator sound. My classical still sounds like a classical, and the archtop still sounds like an archtop , but it's still something to think about.
Anybody want to drop a cool $300 on a lark? |
I'm OK with $300 if I'm pretty sure it would sound good and be feedback-resistant and generally problem-free. The Krivos aren't exactly cheap.
Sounds like there are some reasonable potential alternatives out there, but some careful thought and research will be required to avoid just burning money up. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 1:47 pm
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I think what one uses to amplify a dobro is more or less dependent on the amount of use it’s going to get. If you’re the steel player, but you are going for a change of pace for two or three songs on dobro per evening, you probably want to try to get away with the simplest setup possible.
I have on my 6 string Clinesmith the classic modern setup: Fishman Nashville pickup run into the Douglas Aura pedal, mounted on a Schoonover modular spider. It’s pricey - but it has been worth it to me when I have played dobro the entire evening.
IMO the Krivo sounds closest to the real deal in terms of surface mounted magnetic pickups. Still a little lap steelish, but again if you’re not on dobro full time I think it is acceptable. You can run it through a device like the ToneDexter by Audio Sprockets and get some pretty accurate acoustic reproduction - but now you’re out a bunch more money.
A longtime dobro buddy who builds some beautiful guitars in Florida is Damon Wack of Lindamon Guitars. He actually worked with Krivo awhile back to have them build a custom 7 string reso pickup for one of his customers. He said it was about $300 which as I recall is around $70 more than the stock 6 string reso version. If they can produce a 7 string pickup, maybe they can do an 8 string?
A guy on the Resohangout forum ordered a 6 string Krivo pickup and put it on his 10 string OMI Dobro. He says it picks up all 10 strings just fine. I’m skeptical - I would have to hear it to believe it.
If it were me where I’m playing 2-3 songs per evening on dobro and most of the time on steel or some other instrument, I would leave the 8 string at home and buy a 6 string Gretsch Bobtail which comes with the Nashville pickup, and keep my eyes peeled for a used Jerry Douglas Aura pedal. In trying to keep the cost down but still getting the job done, this makes more sense to me than trying to do the salmon swimming upstream approach in amplifying an 8 string resophonic guitar.
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Mark |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 6:10 am
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Interestingly, this very topic just appeared in the Reso Hangout, although it is basically concerning making a cheap version of the Nashville for a 6-string reso. The model he chose is too short to cover my 7-string Sho-Bro, but there are other piezo undersaddle pickups that are long enough available for cheap here in Asia and on Amazon. The Sho-Bro has an offset spider since there is a string in the middle of the bridge that would prevent access to the tension screw on a standard spider - so I don't need to bridge the screw, as he does (or an 8-string would require). Here's the link. In the article is a link to a PDF describing his install. We have to take his word for the sound quality results!
https://www.resohangout.com/topic/57536
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 Jan 2023 5:55 am
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That fellow put a lot of work into making a dobro pickup out of a Fishman Thinline under the saddle flattop guitar pickup. I believe he posted that the Thinline goes for $126. The Fishman Nashville goes for about $210 and is used successfully by most of the top players when they need to plug in. I guess if one is a “tinkerer” type - have at it. I lack the energy for such a project and would rather spend the additional $84. After all, we’re still talking 6 string dobro in this guy’s situation, not a difficult puzzle
to solve like a 7 or 8 string resonator.
Alluding to what you mentioned Douglas, I’d have to hear it to determine for myself if it is indeed superior to the Fishman Nashville pickup. Like the guy I mentioned who put a 6 string Krivo reso pickup on a 10 string Dobro and posted that it works just fine.
It reminds me of a Bay Area steel jam from a bunch of years ago - pedal steel, lap steel and dobro players attended. A guy had as I recall an older OMI Dobro with a surface mounted humbucker, typical of an electric guitar. He had posted either here or on a resonator forum that he was getting good amplified sound. When he played at the jam he was quite good, but the guitar sounded pretty much like a lap steel - not so much like a dobro. I complimented him on his playing as we were packing up, but I politely told him that his guitar sounded like a lap steel. He was okay with my comment, he didn’t get ticked off or anything.
The moral of the story is if it is not a proven commodity with many examples in “real world” playing like the Fishman Nashville combined with the Jerry Douglas Aura pedal, I usually want to hear it for myself before I accept what someone writes about these things online.
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Mark |
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David Devlin
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2023 9:22 am
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I made a fishman style pickup for my 8 string. I purchased two piezo off eBay for maybe $10 each. They were short strips intended for a mandolin. I cut the bridge inserts near the top, got a strong 5000 psi epoxy and sandwiched the piezos between the cut inserts. Put them back in and wired the two strips in parallel and it works great. Sounds like a fishman. It's a bit of project but totally doable. I'm not a skilled tech and I could manage. If you interested I'd be happy to conjure up some more details. The hard part was fixturing the insert and piezo while glueing.
Another thing I've done wrt to amplification and feedback on one of my 6 strings is effectively removed the cone. I play with a few very loud country bands in dance hall and casino's. The sound in these places and on stage can be ridiculously loud. I'm not sure why. The dobro has always been difficult, even with the fishman and aura setup I still had to hang on to the strings. So I took an old cone I had and cut out about 80% of it leaving the center hub in place and put it back in a spare dobro with a fishman spider pickup. When played through a tone dexter it sounds the same as it did with the cone. It's pretty much like having an electric guitar and there is no feedback issue. I haven't tried it with the JD aura pedal but I'm pretty sure it will sound the same. |
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David Renson
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2023 1:23 pm 2 mini microphones taped together reducing feedback
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It's an old vocalist feedback suppressing trick to tape 2 SM57 or any microphones together to cancel out feedback. The concept may work inside a resonator using mini mics.
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MajorBacon |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2023 4:27 pm Re: Resonator amplification options?
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| Cody Coombs wrote: |
| I play an 8 string square neck dobro, my band is doing some songs that have dobro. I can get by on my steel, but would prefer to use my dobro. I’ve looked and done research and have not come across a good pickup solution for an 8 string reso. My other option is to use a sm57 or sm137 and run into an acoustic amp? Not sure if running straight into the PA would sound great as I would like to have a designated soundbox I can change my own sound with. |
I tried a Don Lace dobro pickup on my OMI D10 and it was simply too narrow. However it might work on a guitar with only 8 strings. Measure your string spacing just beyond the end of your fingerboard to see if it might work.
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Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 7 Apr 2023 11:12 am Pu
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I contacted Fishman several years ago and they made me a PU for my 7 string Weissenborn . 
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 7 Apr 2023 1:53 pm Re: Pu
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| Larry Allen wrote: |
| I contacted Fishman several years ago and they made me a PU for my 7 string Weissenborn . |
I’m curious what it looks like, can you share a photo?
Historically weissie pickups are the soundhole type, apples vs. oranges in comparison to something like the Fishman Nashville pickup insert which is mounted in the spider bridge slot.
For that matter I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t use the acoustic flattop pickup from K & K in a Weissenborn where the sensors are superglued inside the guitar to the top or soundboard.
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Mark |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 7 Apr 2023 2:10 pm
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Aloha Mark. It’s the under the saddle strip..they made it 3 1/4” long, end pin 1/4”jack..
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 11:27 am
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Of course. I guess I left out an obvious choice as a solution for a seven string flattop guitar, be it a Weissenborn style or something like a Martin.
That’s cool that they were willing to do that for you, though it seems to be a much simpler task than making a special order dobro pickup - unless they have changed their mind more recently, I don’t think they want any part of making a Nashville pickup for a seven or eight string resophonic guitar. I know a few people have asked and the answer was no.
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Mark |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 11:41 am Pu
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When I ordered it I just asked for the length, never came up as to what guitar it would be used on.. also this was in 1999..
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 2:08 pm Re: Pu
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| Larry Allen wrote: |
| When I ordered it I just asked for the length, never came up as to what guitar it would be used on.. also this was in 1999.. |
The Nashville resophonic pickup didn’t hit the market until around 2009. If you had asked them for a dobro pickup in 1999 they would have steered you to the horrible sounding “donut” pickup that is connected to the tension screw under the cone. I’m amazed they still offer it for sale. I fought one for years in my main reso guitar.
Again - apples and oranges. A weissie is essentially a flattop guitar with a hollow neck. A dobro is an unruly beast to amplify, more like half guitar/half mechanical device. The only things they have in common are raised strings and using a bar in your left hand.
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Mark |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 2:33 pm Pu
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I also tried the usual 6 string pickups available in the 90’s, I met Bill Lawrence at a ST Louis convention and he steered me to his Dobro PU.. probably impossible to find now but the best so far.. the fishman under saddle on the Wiessie is great for that guitar.. I also have them on my 6 string Wiessies
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 5:08 pm
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Jerry Douglas used the Lawrence pickup for awhile in the ‘90s and maybe a little later. As I recall he would sometimes combine it with a Rane preamp. But he pretty much always would also combine it with a microphone on a a stand while playing live.
But since the Nashville pickup came on board around ‘09, along with the Douglas Aura pedal with 16 “images” of his recorded by the late great engineer/producer Bil Vorndick - the Lawrence pickup hasn’t been seen on any of his guitars in many years. And no microphone in combination, so you can move around and not be invisibly “tethered” to a mic stand. That’s one of my favorite parts about the system.
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Mark |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 5:15 pm Pu
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Thanks for the info! I wonder if any of the pickup makers could duplicate Bill’s D-XR5 for a 7 /8 string Dobro? I had a Sho-Bro 7 string for years but sold it to Jackson’s daughter a couple years ago..I always used a mic for it..
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2023 9:47 pm
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Larry, in its time the Lawrence was maybe the best thing going for a surface mounted magnetic dobro pickup, but I knew a couple of guys who had them on their guitars and they always sounded about half dobro and half lap steel to me.
I wrote about it earlier in the thread - probably the best thing going these days for a surface mounted pickup - not as good as the Fishman Nashville with the Aura pedal - is the Krivo Resophonic pickup out of Oregon. And I know of one luthier who had them make a custom 7 string version instead of the usual 6 string version.
Some demo videos on the site. On its own without additional sound shaping, still a little lap steelish, but it’s the best magnetic pickup I have heard so far for a resophonic guitar n terms of accuracy.
https://www.krivopickups.com/store/p2/Krivo_Humbucking_Pickups_for_Resophonic_Guitars..html
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Mark |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2023 9:37 pm
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👀. For ideas/options
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RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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