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Topic: Headroom for steel guitar |
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2023 8:22 am |
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| This may be a dumb question, but why do we need so much headroom? I am not used to looking at such high wattage amps with huge speakers, being from the regular guitar world. My favorite amp for guitar is a 5W tweed Princeton. It seems steel guitar amps are more like bass amps. Is it note separation, to keep things from getting muddy? The older steel guitar players were playing on much lower watt amps. I guess that is a sound and it seems most modern players are going for clarity. Just curious what people think. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 1 Feb 2023 11:28 am
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Primarily because the complex dynamics and waveform are not well served by even modest amounts of distortion, thus what for the static voicings of a guitar sounds simply warm will for a steel sound like random unwanted harmonic artifacts flying around.
Add to that with an expression, i.e volume pedal, the need for clean, noise-free sustain requires a considerable power reserve.
These among other reasons, as you will soon discover. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 1 Feb 2023 3:20 pm
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Tim, steel players as a rule like clean clean clean.
"High wattage amps with huge speakers"? Sure, some do--but the 80 watt Peavey 112 is plenty loud (and clean) for me.
If they want any more loud, they can mike it and run it through the PA! |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Feb 2023 4:19 pm
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For pedal steel, my explanation is pretty much the same as Dave's. I answered more fully on your original thread about the Quilters here - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3134607.
And as stated in my other reply, I handle things differently for lap/console steel. Which, I glean from your later reply on the other thread, is apparently what you are asking about. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Feb 2023 4:42 pm
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I use a Roland bass cube for small gigs and rehearsals.
Conversely, I play my bass quite happily through my Telonics steel rig. All the above explanations are good; pedal steel generates a lot of difference tones which only a solid amp can handle cleanly. (Those same tones add colour to regular guitar.)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2023 7:12 am
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| I think I am understanding this better in, like everything it depends on the specifics. For modern steel guitars and copedants lots of clean power sounds like a must. I am only playing 8 string lap steel right now so maybe I don't need 200W. The attenuator on the Quilters and others make them pretty versatile I would imagine, but for home and occasional use 200W seems like overkill. Thanks for the insight! |
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Dale Rivard
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Feb 2023 8:11 am
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| Hi Tim, Another thing to consider is the volume pedal. If you don't use a volume pedal when you play lap steel, you probably just set the overall volume level on your amp where you want it then adjust your picking hand for dynamics. Most pedal steel players use a volume pedal which is a game changer. You need that headroom(reserve) depending on what you want to play. I normally play with my volume pedal between 1/2 and 3/4, even for solos. That leaves me the rest of the pedal for sustaining long harmonics or whatever. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2023 11:38 am
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The combination of head room in an amp, Turn up the volume and proper control of the volume pedal is the way to make a steel have all the sustain you need.
Go to U tube, Pull up Buddy Emmons playing Once Upon A Time In The West. There is a good view of his right foot control of the volume pedal, Using E Bow and pick playing too.
There is a post, Maybe here on the forum of all players Amp. Settings at the St. Louis show from several years ago. Mr. Emmons volume was set the highest of any player on the Peavey Amps. at the show. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 2 Feb 2023 3:04 pm
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| Now that mic'ing an amp is easy to do you don't need a ton of power that often. I still do lots of work with a JBL-loaded 45 watt Vibroverb, and a decent Pro Reverb or Super Reverb amp with good speakers will serve very well also, not to mention the very ballsy 85, 100, and 135 watt Fender Twin Reverb and Vibrosonic amps, but of course the more speakers you're packing the heavier the load in and out. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 3 Feb 2023 6:00 am Re: Headroom for steel guitar
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| This may be a dumb question, but why do we need so much headroom? I am not used to looking at such high wattage amps with huge speakers, being from the regular guitar world. My favorite amp for guitar is a 5W tweed Princeton. It seems steel guitar amps are more like bass amps. Is it note separation, to keep things from getting muddy? The older steel guitar players were playing on much lower watt amps. I guess that is a sound and it seems most modern players are going for clarity. Just curious what people think. |
To my ear the classic early tone of pedalsteel recording comes from tube amplifiers with a natural compression and slight expressive distortion. In the 80’s steel players started using high power solid state amps. Because they don’t sound good in the first place we use drastic eq and an obsession with clean head room. The same thing happened in studios in the 80’s with an obsession with signal to noise ratios. The way I see it is some players got stuck in the 80’s and somehow this became accepted as common knowledge. I also feel like one of the main reasons pedalsteel is not used in different musical roles is that 2k beam with square wave peaking overdrive that you get from early ss amps is called twang by some. That sound can make engineers cringe and irritate audiences. Some modern solid state amps have gotten past this problem. Ultimately don’t use a strident annoying tone because you think you should. Follow your own ear. For me tubes still rule.
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Bob |
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