Making A Change

Larry Ball · From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

I have decided to remove the two bottom strings off my “Williams” SD12 Extended E9. I just have simply lost interest in the Extended E9 an I am focusing on playing my SD10’s (Mullen and Sho~Bud). I want to listen to the sound to hear if there is any tone changes. If so I may put the strings back on and sell the guitar. It is a beautiful sounding guitar, but I prefer the 10 string.
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Sho~Bud SD10 LDG, Show-Pro SD10 LDG, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100 MK11, Telonic's F100 Multi-Taper Super Pro V/P, Wayne Brown “Custom Designed Amp”

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Probably won't be any change in tone. I took off the 2 bottom strings on a Mullen SD12 I had and noticed no difference.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have a Williams 12-string on order, Larry. I currently play a D10 (which I will be keeping) but I've been tempted to try D13; I started with Johnny Cox' idea and made the odd change in accordance with my priorities.

I'm responding to your thread because, in the back of my mind - and should the D13 with it's extra 6th note on string 5 prove to be an insurmountable hurdle for me - my 'plan B' has always been to switch it to an Extended E9. I'd love to have a low E that I could drop to a C#!

(I should add that the D13th set-up will be studied hard and given every chance: Plan A is to stick with it.)

My Williams will have 7+6, so it'd make a loaded E9, for sure. I love the E9 tuning but have always felt it lacked low-end range. And here you are abandoning it. Smile

I agree with Richard: I can't imagine that you'll alter the tone significantly or, in fact, at all.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Larry Ball · From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

I don’t seem to play the same way or enjoy the SD12 as much as the SD10. That may come from the fact I never played a C6 etc and I don’t know how to play the bottom strings to get the best advantage of that sound. “Yes” I also found something missing on the E9 at the bottom end that’s why I purchased the SD12. However every time I go back to playing the 10 I seem to find more satisfaction in my playing. I need maybe to do more research on playing the Extended E9 with the usage of the bottom strings.
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Sho~Bud SD10 LDG, Show-Pro SD10 LDG, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100 MK11, Telonic's F100 Multi-Taper Super Pro V/P, Wayne Brown “Custom Designed Amp”

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Well, I don't think the character of E9 is lost just because we add a low G# and E on 11 and 12. I would add the G# to A raise to the B pedal on the 11th.

For me, the vital string is the D at the 9th. Do you have that on your Williams or is yours a universal type tuning?

I have my 10th (on my D10 E9) lowering to an A. That helps a bit but just makes me want more range down there. As it is, the low string on E9 is no lower than a guitar's 5th string at the second fret.

However, if you're comfortable as it is, nobody can argue with that. It's you that has to be happy with it.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I find the 11th string is where the magic is for E9x. I don’t have the 12th string lower to C# or D (yet) and it only really functions as a root for the open position. Overall feeling is, not going back to S10.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Fred:

Do you have E and G# at 12 and 11?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Larry Ball · From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

Thx for your input Roger..

Yes I have my 11th string with the G# A raise on my B pedal.

Plus I have my 12th with E to F raise with the LKL and lower to D on pedal 3
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Sho~Bud SD10 LDG, Show-Pro SD10 LDG, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100 MK11, Telonic's F100 Multi-Taper Super Pro V/P, Wayne Brown “Custom Designed Amp”

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Hi Roger,
Easier to share a pic of my copedant in public 😎

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Fred.

Do you split-tune your P1 and P2 to get the C note?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Richard

As the split-tune function is available on all strings on my Emmons, I have everything adjusted just in case: C pedal/E lower, A pedal/RKL on E9, pedal 7 on C6/3rd and 4th string lower and the same with my P4 that raises the As to B.

I will have to get used used to the A pedal/RKL split being 'on the floor' (as you have it) when my D13th 12 string comes: P4 on that replicates the old C6 P5 and serves the same purpose (albeit in another key).

Now, my E9 P4 lowers 9,6,3 to C#,G and G - it gives me a m7b5 or, at zero fret, an A9.

I believe Travis Toy also lowers his 5th and 10th on the floor. He explained the logic of that to me and I could see what he meant. Back then, I didn't want to change. With my new guitar, I'll find out if it works for me.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Yes I have the split to C on P1&2.That is the only split I have. Like Richard, I don’t use it as much as I thought I would. Nice to have it though. Bb on the floor gets a lot of use, as does rocking on 1&2 like AB. I wanted the vertical for G, so the Bb on P1 decision kind of made itself.

Right now I am only reconsidering the Franklin pedal on P5, which I rarely use. I just have not developed a very good technique for jumping over to it and then getting back into my default foot position. If I spent more time on that, I might actually use it more, so I don’t think putting a different change on it would make much difference unless I really liked the change.

Larry Ball · From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

Thx for all the comments regarding the SD12 Extended E9, I had a couple of sleepless nights thinking about them. Taking the two bottom strings off left the guitar cosmetically hard to look at. This is a beautiful looking and sounding guitar so now I was left with a sad feeling that I had created. Therefore strings are back on and I plan on giving it another go coming from a different perspective.
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Sho~Bud SD10 LDG, Show-Pro SD10 LDG, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100 MK11, Telonic's F100 Multi-Taper Super Pro V/P, Wayne Brown “Custom Designed Amp”

Bill McCloskey · Posted 16 Jan 2023 2:26 pm

Larry, I had the exact same issue you did. I had a Williams S12 Ext E9 as my first pedal steel. I also took the bottom two strings off, didn't like the way it looked and put them back on. Then in a weird twist of fate I was able to sell my 12 String Series 700 Williams and buy a 10 string Series 700 Williams within a 48 hour period. A week later, I'm playing a beautiful 3x5 10 string Williams.

Before:

After:

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Bill, your “Before” is almost the spittin image of mine. The only differences are a 5th pedal and a black burst burgundy finish. Both of them are stunners! But glad you are happy with the “After” too😎

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