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Topic: Vance Terry TAB? |
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2023 4:26 pm |
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I just spent most of the last 2 days listening to Brisbane Bop and the Billy Jack Wills recordings down in the workshop and my head is just buzzing! Has anyone made any attempt to tab out any of his licks or solos?
I know there is some debate about his tuning and he was surely using pedals on the Brisbane Bop recordings, but it occurred to me that a lot of his playing isn't really flashy, it is just tasty as hell!
The only recordings I own that come close to this are from Jeremy Wakefield and he really sounds like a devoted disciple of Vance.
Wakefied is doing it with pretty standard tunings, so I know it is possible. It is surprising to me that more of an effort has not been made to really dig into his playing style or maybe there has and I am just unaware?
His playing would probably take a lifetime of study I realize, but I can't think of anything musically more worthwhile right now. Wish I had another lifetime! |
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Brett Bonner
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2023 8:15 pm
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Guy Cundell's dissertation has a tab of Cadillac in Model A in it that may help you.
What's helped me personally with progress in the instrument and getting to know various tunings is tagging cool pockets and solos in Anytune to slow them down, and then tabbing out in Musescore. Blue Guitar Stomp and I Don't Know from the Billy Jack Wills transcriptions were good one to start with. In musescore, I create a tab staff with the appropriate tuning and start to tab it out. At first, I only worry about tabbing the correct pitch and don't worry about correct position. The nice thing about Musescore is that so long as I get the pitch right, I can later move any transcribed notes up and down the tab staff to figure out the logical position/strings to play the lick. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 6:19 am
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| Brett Bonner wrote: |
Guy Cundell's dissertation has a tab of Cadillac in Model A in it that may help you.
What's helped me personally with progress in the instrument and getting to know various tunings is tagging cool pockets and solos in Anytune to slow them down, and then tabbing out in Musescore. Blue Guitar Stomp and I Don't Know from the Billy Jack Wills transcriptions were good one to start with. In musescore, I create a tab staff with the appropriate tuning and start to tab it out. At first, I only worry about tabbing the correct pitch and don't worry about correct position. The nice thing about Musescore is that so long as I get the pitch right, I can later move any transcribed notes up and down the tab staff to figure out the logical position/strings to play the lick. |
Thanks for the tips! Those programs look super useful. They will pair nicely with iReal pro. I am trying to get over my fear of technology. That Anytune should be immensely helpful in developing a good ear. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 6:42 am
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| I just read through the last chapter of the Guy's dissertation and found the Cadillac in Model A transcription. I am curious if we know when Terry switched to a tuning with a low G# instead of an E? It seems like most of the song could be played in either version. The low G# and B seems to be more useful. My biggest problem with this tuning is the lack of a middle E. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 7:31 am
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This is something you need to do for yourself as a learning experience (transcribing, and a lot of it). You have to be able to look at things in as many ways as possible to be able to find the most efficient and effective way of articulation.
I am not sure which tuning you are referring to when you say it is missing a “middle E”, but this is part of the process of understanding where a steel player is coming from as opposed to a guitarist. I’m assuming it is an E9 or E13. If you really dig in, you will find things that will excite you enough to the point where you will forget about the missing E. And anyway, the E is just a tuning peg twist away should you need it.
Embrace and enjoy the process. There is nothing better than music-related intellectual curiosity.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 7:52 am
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Maybe a good thing to do would be to start a group transcription project to compare notes. Pick a tune and transcribe a chorus and compare with others. I did this with Steve Khan when I took some guitar lessons with him. We transcribed some Jim Hall solos and compared notes. Steve is a great transcriptionist and I was only pretty good at the time. I developed my own process as a result.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 9:07 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| There is nothing better than music-related intellectual curiosity. |
Yes!
Tim, there are a lot of threads on Vance and his tunings on the forum. If you search, you'll find lots of great stuff.
As for the lack of a middle E thing. Vance and an awful lot of other players had/have E13 in conjunction with another tuning. If he really wanted a root in the middle of his tuning, he could simply switch to another neck. Similarly, for the early 8 string Bud Isaacs version of E9, with both pedals down Bud had A6 with a root in the middle. If both tunings are part of your system (or one big tuning as Lee Jeffriess likes to say), then it doesn't matter. Within E13 you can still play the 1 chord. Sometimes you might only be able to play two notes, but that's fine. Not every voicing has to have four notes. And if you have pedals or another tuning, you can get the 3-4 note voicing that isn't available on one neck on another neck, or with a pedal change. |
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Ethan Shaw
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 2:21 pm
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| Hey Tim, a lot of that Brisbane Bop stuff was played on his E13 pedal tuning. Anthony (Tony) Locke has a lot of it figured out perfectly. If you go to his youtube channel (which is awesome), it will definitely help you. That stuff is what made me want to play pedal steel. |
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Rich Arnold
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 5:10 pm Re: Vance Terry TAB?
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| I just spent most of the last 2 days listening to Brisbane Bop and the Billy Jack Wills recordings down in the workshop and my head is just buzzing! Has anyone made any attempt to tab out any of his licks or solos? ! |
I love that record!!!!!!!!!! I wish I could help you out, but the only tune I learned off that record is "Swedish Pastry" (the head) and I read it from sheet music.  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 13 Jan 2023 9:48 pm
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If my posts above seem a little harsh, I’m sorry about that, but it is said with love—love for the steel guitar and for those who choose to take this thing seriously. It is the same advice I would give my kids if they were inclined to play. I don’t ever want to come off like some of the crotchety guys who annoyed the crap out of me here.
When I started playing, I was interested in Speedy West and imagine my surprise when there was literally nothing ever tabbed or notated by him. The steel playing seemed like a foreign language to me even though I’ve been playing music practically my whole life. I had no choice but to roll up my sleeves and figure it out on my own. I think the first one was Steelin’ Moonlight. A fairly easy piece, but it seemd like a real accomplishment to me. I kept on doing it until I actually started to see the instrument in a new way. I wish that for everyone.
Tackling Vance Terry, one of the most sophisticated players ever, is going to take a lot of commitment. I wish you luck. Many have done it, and I hear that sound in a lot of players. But you have to listen to that music repeatedly until you can sing it and roll up your sleeves and figure it out. You will be glad you did, I promise.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2023 6:42 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
If my posts above seem a little harsh, I’m sorry about that, but it is said with love—love for the steel guitar and for those who choose to take this thing seriously. It is the same advice I would give my kids if they were inclined to play. I don’t ever want to come off like some of the crotchety guys who annoyed the crap out of me here.
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Not at all Mike! You are just being real and I appreciate that  I am still trying to figure out if I am really a steel guitar player or just someone who has built a couple. I have found a ton of inspiration for all my musical projects by following the leads I have found on the forum and the rabbit hole of steel guitar in general. All this inspiration just leads to more things I want to do, and sadly as everyone here knows, time is the critical component.
The truth for me is that I do not have the skills presently to even begin to think about tackling these tunes. I feel I have had an epiphany with them however, and I realize they are not impossible. You are absolutely right in saying that basically no one can do it for you. Transcribing tunes is something I have avoided and really isn't required in my other musical life, but part of the reason I got into steel was to challenge myself and hopefully open new doors in music. I can say without a doubt that this is happening.
Ethan! Thank you for mentioning Anthony Locke. I listened to a few tunes and his playing is absolutely stunning! That is it!! Do you know what copedant he is using? |
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Ethan Shaw
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2023 7:15 am
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| The last time we talked about it, he was using Vance's actual E13 copedant (which I don't completely remember). He's a nice guy. You should reach out to him, and I'm sure he'd tell you. |
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Rich Arnold
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2023 3:10 pm
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
I am still trying to figure out if I am really a steel guitar player or just someone who has built a couple. |
THAT is a HUGE question my friend, and one that we all have to find the answer for. A good indicator is this:
If you are unable to leave it alone for any length of time, you are a steel player and you're going to do just fine. IMO |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2023 10:24 am
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I just stumbled on a tuning I am having hard time putting down! Part of my problem with steel is I am finally getting more comfortable with A6 and so many of the tunes and players I am loving are using E13. So why not A13! An easy hack from A6. Low to high- G-B-C#-E-F#-A-C#-E
This tuning gives a nice extra E minor triad and C#m7b5. It gives a really cool low voicing of a 9th chord as well when playing in the 2 frets down 9th position. I also love how the upper A6 tuning is easy to play while avoiding the low notes and having the root closer to the middle as opposed to the McAuliffe E13. |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 15 Jan 2023 11:12 am
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Cool!  |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 7:14 am
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After re-reading my posts I realize I may have come off a little over zealous in my claim that Jeremy Wakefield is the only person I have heard who comes close to getting The Vance Terry sound. I wasn't meaning to put down anyone else's efforts and as mentionedby Mike Neer many have done it. I thought of a few obvious others myself. I do put Steel Guitar Caviar as one of my all time favorite records, and I know Jeremey's influences go far beyond Vance. I am still digging to find the steel recordings that really inspire me so if anyone else has some suggestions I am all ears. Mostly I am still pretty ignorant with this stuff. Lee Jefferies gets mentioned a lot and I really dig his playing from the little I have heard. I see he has an album of instrumentals that seems rare as hens teeth!
https://www.vintageguitar.com/4757/john-munnerlyn-lee-jeffries-guitar-in-perspective/
Back to my original reason for this post. So there is no obvious roadmap to learning to play like Vance. I just want to put this out there. It would be amazing if there was some way to compile everything known about his instruments and playing. His brilliance seems to be somewhat overshadowed by the way that he left. I see some people on the forum have personal connections and that is so cool, I am incredibly jealous. Most of what I have learned came from old posts on the forum. A recent one about his tunings
here https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3088909&sid=279fe8fbfc4fee532d56916b3eed8252
I feel Vance Terry deserves to be remembered in the way Charlie Christian or Charlie Parker etc. are remembered. The Brisbane Bop recordings are to me similar to the legendary Mintons recordings or Snoozer Quinn deathbed recordings. They give a window to the rarest talent. |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 9:06 am
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I would venture to say that the roadmap to learning any music is fairly clear. The hardest part is sticking with it, because it can be quite frustrating at times! I do not say this as some kind of expert, but rather as someone who should really be taking my own advice here!
Learning things by ear is the key. If something is too hard to play, learn to sing it a piece at a time and then learn to play it, as slow as you need to, with a metronome or drum machine, so that it is in time. Then work it up to speed. Sometimes that process can be excruciatingly, painfully slow. But if you stick with it, it works out eventually. When I first started playing steel, I had a really tough time learning things by ear, even though I had done lots of it on standard guitar. The singing thing really got me started. I nearly gave up so many times. I am nowhere near the player I would like to be, but that's my two cents, for what it's worth.
That is almost certainly how Vance learned to play. It seems like the best players always say that they learned by ear, almost without exception. Being aware of what chord the line you are learning is being played over is important too, so that you can use this stuff in the future in your own playing. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 9:58 am
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| Daniel Baston wrote: |
I would venture to say that the roadmap to learning any music is fairly clear. The hardest part is sticking with it, because it can be quite frustrating at times! I do not say this as some kind of expert, but rather as someone who should really be taking my own advice here!
Learning things by ear is the key. If something is too hard to play, learn to sing it a piece at a time and then learn to play it, as slow as you need to, with a metronome or drum machine, so that it is in time. Then work it up to speed. Sometimes that process can be excruciatingly, painfully slow. But if you stick with it, it works out eventually. When I first started playing steel, I had a really tough time learning things by ear, even though I had done lots of it on standard guitar. The singing thing really got me started. I nearly gave up so many times. I am nowhere near the player I would like to be, but that's my two cents, for what it's worth.
That is almost certainly how Vance learned to play. It seems like the best players always say that they learned by ear, almost without exception. Being aware of what chord the line you are learning is being played over is important too, so that you can use this stuff in the future in your own playing. |
Excellent advice Daniel! The singing it back is a excellent trick. If you can't sing it, you don't know it. I just realized I was doing that when learning a couple Snoozer Quinn solos. It all comes down to getting it in your ear first then getting it into muscle memory. It is long and yes excruciating at times but it does pay off. I have done a little bit of transcribing on guitar and I am always amazed when I realized I thought I knew a melody I am sorely mistaken. |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 10:43 am
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| Snoozer Quinn! You have good taste! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2023 7:01 am
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Listening to Snoozer has really helped me start to understand voice leading. I am hoping Vance Terry can do that for steel guitar. Have you ever listened to this guy? Snoozer re-incarnated?? Dig the Bass solo 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ose0L8RGLdo |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jan 2023 10:02 am
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I have the Fatcat LP The Legendary Snoozer Quinn and I've heard all the outtakes from that, but what I've been dying to hear is the stuff cornetist Scott Black restored from a box of acetates from jam sessions. He released them on his own label and I can remember his website, but all evidence of it is long gone. On Volume 2, Snoozer even takes a few solos.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2023 7:52 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I have the Fatcat LP The Legendary Snoozer Quinn and I've heard all the outtakes from that, but what I've been dying to hear is the stuff cornetist Scott Black restored from a box of acetates from jam sessions. He released them on his own label and I can remember his website, but all evidence of it is long gone. On Volume 2, Snoozer even takes a few solos. |
You have my attention Mike! I assume you are referring to Scott Black from the Leon Redbone group? I see he is doing a ton of work in historical research, mostly about Bix Beiderbecke whom Snoozer recorded with, so this would be where to look . This would be a MAJOR find in a historical and cultural sense considering he comes from the dawn of the jazz age. I can't find anything about this on the web or https://snoozerquinn.com . There is a reference on the twitter updates section that they have a lead on some possible recordings from about a month ago, but this would seem to be something different. |
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