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Topic: Derby bell-cranks - how do they work?? |
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 8:21 am |
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Edited to add:
Looking more closely at these BCs, I see the brass collar through which, presumably, the pull-rod passes. But HOW is the rod secured? There's nowhere for a set-screw to go.
My pal Bud needs a couple of them but I don't want to send him something that's incomplete. Look at my photo, please.
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I found these in my stash of junk.
I don't know what brand of steel they're from; can someone tell me, please?
I suspect they may be from a Derby but who knows?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 7 Jan 2023 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 8:22 am
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| I've also seen them on JCH guitars. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 9:11 am
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| Yep, Derby they are....so are the brass barrels without the nuts. Have no idea what those fit. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 9:19 am
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Thanks, Guys!
If the cross-shaft measurement is the same, is there any reason why these wouldn't fit a LeGrande?
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 9:30 am
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| Yes, they will fit your LeGrande. Same size 5/16 in. square cross shaft. If you don't need them, you'll have no trouble selling them. Derby parts are nearly impossible to come by. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 9:54 am
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Thanks, Jerry.
They certainly look more user-friendly than the 14-hole BCs and those dreadful E-clips that are standard on my guitar! I like the center-pull as well.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 12:15 pm
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| How do they fix to the cross shaft if the socket screws are facing toward the body? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 6 Jan 2023 12:22 pm
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They don't. The cap screws install from the top. The threads are in the bottom. I guess they just screwed them in that way to keep them together.
Roger, I assumed you already knew that the early all pull Emmons' used a 4 hole bell crank similar to these except with only 1 rail.
I like this method too. Among other things, pull rods don't need to be the exact length. Also makes set ups easier as you can just slide the rod up and down the barrel and adjust with the set screw vs. having to screw the nylon back and forth.
Obviously you lose the finer timing advantage of the 14 holer. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 7 Jan 2023 11:12 am
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| Roger, observe the first bellcrank on the left in the photo. You can see the threads in the brass barrel there. A small set screw should be in one end or the other to tighten against the pull rod. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 7 Jan 2023 11:32 am
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I have these on my JCH D10 8+8
The setscrew screws in same way the brassbarrels are installed in the bellcranks. Superfast to re-rod if you wanna change hole location at the changer or switch to a different hole in the bellcrank.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7
JCH D10 8+8 |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 7 Jan 2023 1:14 pm
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Fully understood, Jerry - at last!!!  Thanks for the PM.
Bengt:
Any chance I could see your 12-string E9 7+7 setup? I have a 12-string coming and I'm still rooting around for the best option. It's going to be D13 at this moment but, by next week, who knows?
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2023 6:05 pm
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Roger in your picture, There is some Brass Ferrels needed for those Bell Cranks, There is 3 in the Odd and Ends fittings, The ones with the Rim and have the cross hole in them. The cross hole is for the Pull Rod and should have set screw threads in the rimmed end.
That is a stamped out Bell Crank, Very close to the setup MSA used on Classic Steels of the 70', They used machined Aluminum for round cross rods. |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 16 Jan 2023 3:34 pm Derby Parts
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| Hens teeth for sure! |
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chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 2:04 pm
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| I have these on a Derby….am wondering about the amount of travel possible with these compared to an Emmons 14 hole bell crank. I would like to be able to increase the travel on the 3rd string raise in order to shorten the pedal throw. As it is, I am maxed out on the changer and bell crank… |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 2:16 pm
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Bobby
Sorry this is a late response but when I snapped that photo (as you guessed) it was a pile of odds and ends. I did figure it out but, unfortunately, changing the leverage on my RKR upset its function. I ended up replacing the old Emmons 14 hole crank. Now it works again.
Chuck:
The cross-shaft is the same on the Emmons and Derby; maybe a 14 hole crank would give you that extra that you're looking for.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 2:25 pm
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| Thanks Roger…I was wondering if the two types of cranks are the same length..even if they are, it seems to me some advantage might be gained, as the four whole crank has larger holes with the rod pulling from the center of the whole..next question, where does one find a 14 hole bell crank? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 2:31 pm
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They're readily available. I may be able to spare one if the usual dealers can't help.
I think you'd gain enough over the Derby crank.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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