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Topic: Reducing white noise when volume pedal is depressed |
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2022 5:43 pm |
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Hello, I am doing some home recording for a friend who lives far away. For one particular song, the part I play involves a lot of harmonics that I sustain with heavy volume pedal use. Putting the volume pedal all the way down causes the background white noise to rise to the point of making my track unusable.
I have tried all of the common solutions and nothing works. It doesn't matter whether I record direct in or mic my amp, whether I simplify my signal chain, whether I put a D/I box anywhere in the signal chain, whether I change the cables, or whether I change electrical outlets/recording locations in my home. We can't seem to find a noise reduction plugin that works without killing the tone either.
Is this just inherent pickup noise that I have to live with? Is there any way to salvage my track? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 1:43 am
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What kind of volume pedal are you using?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 7:11 am
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Get in touch and we can trouble shoot over FaceTime . I’ll be at my steel this morning
_________________
Bob |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 7:32 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| What kind of volume pedal are you using? |
I have a Hilton. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 7:34 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Get in touch and we can trouble shoot over FaceTime . I’ll be at my steel this morning |
Thanks, Bob. How do I get a hold of you? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 8:41 am
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| Maybe just as important (if not more so) than the volume pedal: What pickup(s) are you using? |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 9:00 am
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I think my first question - before I start replacing my equipment - is whether anyone has had any success in this situation - where you are using the volume pedal heavily to sustain harmonics.
Also, I went back and tinkered with the noise reduction plugin some more. It won’t work for cleaning up what I already recorded, but I am getting better at configuring it for new recording. |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 1:33 pm
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Have you tried using a compressor in your signal chain? I'd try it with a fast attack, slow release and with the threshold set pretty low. The compressor should lower the volume during the initial harmonic then release to sustain the remainder of the harmonic.
Also, some feedback plugins can be used to sustain a note for as long as you want but the settings can be tricky since you're using to create sustain instead of feedback. Here is a free feedback plugin: https://www.minimal.audio/products/rift-feedback-lite
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Dale Rivard
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 25 Dec 2022 9:51 am
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| Hi Curt, Something I do that seems to help lessen the white noise when recording is, turn the volume up on the amp and use less of the volume pedal. The hum from the amp itself is louder but the overall white noise experienced from sustaining a note or chord seems to be reduced, from my experience. Another important thing, as ajm has asked, what pickups are you using? I don't record using single coil pickups for this very reason. The hum & white noise can take over much quicker when trying to sustain long lines. Also, the inherent sustain of the instrument itself has a lot to do with this as well. Just curious, how long are you trying to sustain these harmonics? |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 26 Dec 2022 6:19 am
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Some good advice here already, but some misdirection as well. White noise is an artifact of active analog electronics and has nothing to do with your pickups or induced AC noise ("hum") in cables or the "buzz" of a ground loop. Trying to eliminate white noise by messing with your guitar will however allow you to conclusively "fix" things that are not broken.
White noise only comes from active analog electronics, such as an active volume pedal and/or effects boxes in the signal chain, as well as the obvious source of the amplifier itself.
Eliminate each active element until you find the major offender(s), at which point you can decide a course of action. This could be switching to a passive volume pedal, using only onboard amp effects, changing the volume of your amp when recording, or maybe changing VP or right hand technique to produce a stronger noise-free signal. In any case finding the source of the noise is a matter of switching out individual components until the truth is revealed.
Keep picking that thing... |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 26 Dec 2022 7:08 am
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Get in touch and we can trouble shoot over FaceTime . I’ll be at my steel this morning |
Thanks, Bob. How do I get a hold of you? |
Curt, I sent my number and email over the PM thing. Give me a call and we can make a plan.
Looking forward to it !
Bob
_________________
Bob |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2022 7:39 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
Some good advice here already, but some misdirection as well. White noise is an artifact of active analog electronics and has nothing to do with your pickups or induced AC noise ("hum") in cables or the "buzz" of a ground loop. Trying to eliminate white noise by messing with your guitar will however allow you to conclusively "fix" things that are not broken.
White noise only comes from active analog electronics, such as an active volume pedal and/or effects boxes in the signal chain, as well as the obvious source of the amplifier itself.
Eliminate each active element until you find the major offender(s), at which point you can decide a course of action. This could be switching to a passive volume pedal, using only onboard amp effects, changing the volume of your amp when recording, or maybe changing VP or right hand technique to produce a stronger noise-free signal. In any case finding the source of the noise is a matter of switching out individual components until the truth is revealed.
Keep picking that thing... |
Thanks, Dave. Here's what I'm working with regarding your questions:
1) The pickup is the Stage One standard, which I belive is a humbucker. I prefer it to other steels I've played.
2) I'm using a Hilton volume pedal, which I'm guessing is active due to the fact that it draws external power. I would be open minded about changing that part of my rig.
3) I've already tried recording direct-in and totally stripped down and with different cables, so that leaves the pickup or volume pedal as the culprits for the sound.
4) Some of harmonic sustains are for about 5 seconds. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Dec 2022 4:11 pm
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I don't suspect the Hilton pedal - I have never had noise problems with mine.
A humbucking pickup in a budget guitar may well have a comparatively low output, which would impair the overall signal/noise performance. No offence meant 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2023 9:29 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
I don't suspect the Hilton pedal - I have never had noise problems with mine.
A humbucking pickup in a budget guitar may well have a comparatively low output, which would impair the overall signal/noise performance. No offence meant |
I like the pickup in the Stage One more than other steel guitars I've played. In my opinion, it is one the aspects of the guitar that does not involve a tradeoff for the price.
For anyone reading this in the future who is having the same issue, here is how I fixed it: I turned down the sensitivity in the noise reduction plugin and then began each recording with the volume pedal all the way down for a few seconds to give it a sample of the noise. For some reason, it wasn't effective if I tried to create a noise sample later. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 1 Apr 2023 5:03 am
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| For anyone reading this in the future who is having the same issue, here is how I fixed it: I turned down the sensitivity in the noise reduction plugin and then began each recording with the volume pedal all the way down for a few seconds to give it a sample of the noise. For some reason, it wasn't effective if I tried to create a noise sample later. |
Well done, sometimes we just have to outsmart the computers. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2023 8:00 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
I don't suspect the Hilton pedal - I have never had noise problems with mine.
A humbucking pickup in a budget guitar may well have a comparatively low output, which would impair the overall signal/noise performance. No offence meant |
I like the pickup in the Stage One more than other steel guitars I've played. In my opinion, it is one the aspects of the guitar that does not involve a tradeoff for the price.
For anyone reading this in the future who is having the same issue, here is how I fixed it: I turned down the sensitivity in the noise reduction plugin and then began each recording with the volume pedal all the way down for a few seconds to give it a sample of the noise. For some reason, it wasn't effective if I tried to create a noise sample later. |
That's smart thinking. We have so many good tools to use in the studio. Glad you got it figured out. Thanks for giving us the solution.
RC |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2023 8:50 pm
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
I don't suspect the Hilton pedal - I have never had noise problems with mine.
A humbucking pickup in a budget guitar may well have a comparatively low output, which would impair the overall signal/noise performance. No offence meant |
I like the pickup in the Stage One more than other steel guitars I've played. In my opinion, it is one the aspects of the guitar that does not involve a tradeoff for the price.
For anyone reading this in the future who is having the same issue, here is how I fixed it: I turned down the sensitivity in the noise reduction plugin and then began each recording with the volume pedal all the way down for a few seconds to give it a sample of the noise. For some reason, it wasn't effective if I tried to create a noise sample later. |
That's smart thinking. We have so many good tools to use in the studio. Glad you got it figured out. Thanks for giving us the solution.
RC |
Sounds like the Z-noise plugin… always works well for me except for causing things to hang up a little when it’s on… so I only use it in bypass till I’m ready to render.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
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