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Topic: JJ vs Ruby Tubes |
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2022 5:24 am |
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A friend has a Carvin V3 tube amp he has been using for years. While playing his volume went away and he installed some Rubys he had and ordered new JJ tubes but received Ruby tubes. He hates the Ruby tubes so reordered JJs and got Ruby's again.
He swears his sound is terrible with Rubys and blames the Ruby tubes. I don't hear it, but that doesn't count for anything. I mentioned that something else may be wrong of course, but he says NO! It is the tubes.
He has checked bias, and set it.
DOES TUBE BRAND MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE? I think not, but what do I know? Nothing.
He is ordering Ruby's again.
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Dan Otranto
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2022 5:40 am
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| I think the perceivable impact on sound that tubes provide is almost always vastly overblown. It's mostly in audiophile la-la land. Ruby is not a manufacturer but a distributor, there are only a handful of factories in the world that produce vacuum tubes....many Ruby tubes are just JJ tubes that have a "Ruby" branding on them. Ruby does sell tubes under their name from other factories, Russian and Chinese. I think some of the expensive NOS stuff might be worth it for longevity sake, sometimes they seem to last longer than say a cheap Chinese one. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2022 6:50 am
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| Dan Otranto wrote: |
| I think the perceivable impact on sound that tubes provide is almost always vastly overblown. It's mostly in audiophile la-la land. Ruby is not a manufacturer but a distributor, there are only a handful of factories in the world that produce vacuum tubes....many Ruby tubes are just JJ tubes that have a "Ruby" branding on them. Ruby does sell tubes under their name from other factories, Russian and Chinese. I think some of the expensive NOS stuff might be worth it for longevity sake, sometimes they seem to last longer than say a cheap Chinese one. |
I am with you Dan. But, perception is reality for some.
I admit, I am biased MUCHLY toward my Session 400 for steel. He plays guitar and is a very good guitar man
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 8:50 am
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Just my totally unedumacated $0.02 worth.........
If:
1) You don't have the amp really turned up, or
2) are using a power attenuator, or
3) are using any of the built in amp 1/2 power or whatever switches, or
4) anything similar that I forgot, then
I can't see how you are going to notice a difference in POWER tubes.
And that includes comparing different types and switching between 6L6 and EL34 and 6550 and whatever.
Until you get the volume WOUND UP, you're not really driving the power tubes.
Also, you stated that the amp is a V3, and NOT a V3M.
The V3 is/was a 100 watt beast.
By the time you get that thing would up, you're going to hear a lot of things besides tube differences. ;>))
Also you stated: "While playing his volume went away.....".
Hmmm.
Did it ever come back?
Unless the Ruby's were duds (and you said that he tried two sets of them, which means if they were both duds, with those odds you guys need to go and buy lottery tickets), I'm starting to smell something else is amiss.
Also, he may have gotten so used to the JJ's, and they may have been worn out, and now that there are new tubes, they sound different and not the same.
Why did he switch tubes to begin with?
Did one of them actually quit working?
And, if he was using the total of four tubes, then chances are that three of them still work.
Did he ever explore these possibilities?
And with that V3 and two power tubes, that should still be plenty of volume.
Unless of course you're doing a lot of "metal country". |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 9:22 am Re: JJ vs Ruby Tubes
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| Bill Duncan wrote: |
...He swears his sound is terrible with Rubys and blames the Ruby tubes...
He is ordering Ruby's again. |
Maybe I'm missing something. That's entirely possible. However, if his sound is terrible, and he blames Ruby tubes, why is he ordering them again? |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 4:58 pm Re: JJ vs Ruby Tubes
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| Jim Cooley wrote: |
| Bill Duncan wrote: |
...He swears his sound is terrible with Rubys and blames the Ruby tubes...
He is ordering Ruby's again. |
Maybe I'm missing something. That's entirely possible. However, if his sound is terrible, and he blames Ruby tubes, why is he ordering them again? |
My mistake. I meant to say JJ tubes.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 5:27 pm
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| ajm wrote: |
Just my totally unedumacated $0.02 worth.........
Also, you stated that the amp is a V3, and NOT a V3M.
The V3 is/was a 100 watt beast.
By the time you get that thing would up, you're going to hear a lot of things besides tube differences. ;>))
Also you stated: "While playing his volume went away.....".
Hmmm.
Did it ever come back?
Unless the Ruby's were duds (and you said that he tried two sets of them, which means if they were both duds, with those odds you guys need to go and buy lottery tickets), I'm starting to smell something else is amiss.
Also, he may have gotten so used to the JJ's, and they may have been worn out, and now that there are new tubes, they sound different and not the same.
Why did he switch tubes to begin with?
Did one of them actually quit working? |
It is a Carvin 100-watt V3. The volume went away while he was playing. I don't know if just one tube quit, I am the steel picker I didn't work on it. He changed all four and it came back up. Seems he changed all four of them because he had four new ones and wanted to install four new ones I guess.
It is his amp, he is the one dissatisfied, not me. I can't hear any difference. If he thinks it doesn't sound as good with Ruby tubes then it doesn't sound good. It is amp, his sound, and his money to spend as he wants.
I play pedal steel my amp sounds great.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 7:24 pm
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| Quote: |
| A friend has a Carvin V3 tube amp he has been using for years. While playing his volume went away and he installed some Rubys he had and ordered new JJ tubes but received Ruby tubes. He hates the Ruby tubes so reordered JJs and got Ruby's again. |
First - there are differences between tubes. Qualifying and quanitfying those differences is a different kettle of fish. You pretty much need to be a super-geek on tubes and be constantly trying out different ones in a pretty laboratory setting to really discern the differences. Double-blind comparisons are important because there is way too much marketing BS floating around.
Ruby is a tube re-brander. They have, over the years, re-branded tubes from many factories. Some of my absolute favorite 12AX7A preamp tubes are Rubys from the old Beijing plant in the 1990s. And some just didn't work out so good. But I'd say the same for JJs - some have sounded good to me; others, blecch.
One problem, IMO, is that the market is dominated by re-branders, and it's hard to know exactly what you're getting. And I think a lot of new tubes - especially power tubes - are crap, in comparison to good tubes from the classic American/European eras before the late 1980s, when most of those plants closed. To me, it's sound quality, quality control, and longevity. I'm reasonably confident they're not pulling the level of vacuum of the classic tubes. And I don't think the metallurgy is comparable. The people that designed and made those old tubes are mostly dead or (a few) retired, the machines and tooling are old, and the only market is guitar amps and audiophile stuff. Back in the day, tubes ran everything - all the brainpower and resources were devoted to them, and they cranked out millions of tubes. Those days are long gone.
At this point, IMO, you're doing good if they don't blow up in your old Deluxe or Twin Reverb. A lot of newer amps have been specifically designed around a lower plate voltage. I think much of that is to deal with the lower voltage capability of the newer tubes.
Here's a guy showing the versatility of that Carvin V3 100-Watt head - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfytP6lzOI. I'm gonna officially question his ranking of the "100 greatest guitarists", though.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2022 7:49 pm
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www.TubeDepot.com describes the tubes you are buying in detail. That's where I get mine.
Unless it's a power tube that requires a matched set, I just replace the one bad tube. I've never seen the logic in throwing away good tubes.
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Last edited by b0b on 15 Nov 2022 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2022 12:01 pm
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I've never had a power tube fail and the amp go QUIET! π³ I've lost a power tube on a few occasions over the years, and I couldn't get to the amp fast enough! π€£
My UL 135 twin runs around 505-510 vdc loaded, and the only newer power tubes I've found that last are the TungSol STRs and the older Svetlanas..and even with them, they drift to the point that I have to re-arrange the pairs after a while.
I know it's not your amp, but..is he sure it's a power tube problem? π€
After the preamp tube (important!) and the tone stack, the power tubes seem more like light bulbs .. they work or they don't.. just my .02 |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2022 4:42 pm
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| Dave Meis wrote: |
I've never had a power tube fail and the amp go QUIET! π³
I know it's not your amp, but..is he sure it's a power tube problem? π€
After the preamp tube (important!) and the tone stack, the power tubes seem more like light bulbs .. they work or they don't.. just my .02 |
I was there and he was playing and the volume went away. He tried turning it up but it finally went quiet. He used another amp until we finished. He came to my place the next day and brought the amp. He had exchanged the tubes and we played a while but he kept adjusting. He said he did not like the sound, too much mid. I am sure he will sort it out.
It is a nice amp. It has some very pretty led lights that shine on the tubes peeking through the front panel vent slots and change colors.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2022 4:49 pm
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| I've never had an amp that runs EL34s! Hope he gets it sorted! ππ |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 5:31 am
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| Dave Meis wrote: |
| I've never had an amp that runs EL34s! Hope he gets it sorted! ππ |
He had changed it to 6L6. There is a setting switch on the amp for different tube types, as well as suggested biasing settings.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 8:26 am
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Bill Duncan: I get the feeling that it appears that we're ganging up on you when it's really your friends' problem and not yours, and you have effectively become the "middle man" here. I get the feeling that you're trying to gradually make it to the doorway and slink out of the room. ;>))
Don't worry, this discussion will be over soon. ;>))
Dave Meis: How did EL34 tubes enter the conversation?
The only person to mention them was me, and that was a comment about hearing differences between *types* of tubes.
I don't believe that it was ever mentioned that this V3 problem involved anything but 6L6 tubes.
The V3: I think that there is a schematic available on line. Just a coupla comments........
- The 1/2 power switch does not cut the voltage to all four tubes. It DISCONNECTS the power to two of them. From what I've seen, most amps do it this way. Of course, this most likely has nothing to do with this problem.
- Regarding the volume drop..........
Remember the problem that a lot of old Peavey amps have, where volume drop outs are traced back to flaky jacks, ESPECIALLY effects loop jack?
The V3 schematic that I saw uses the same type of circuit. Hmmmm...........
Of course, none of this addresses the original complaint about the TONE between sets of tubes being different. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 9:44 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| www.TubeDepot.com describes the tubes you are buying in detail. That's where I get mine. |
What b0b said.
Regarding audible differences between JJ tubes and others, I have done some tubeset comparisons using a vintage 1965 Super Reverb with new power supply caps and JBL speakers. While I did not take scientific measurements the results were consistent and verified by other ears. Unless otherwise noted a full set of each brand was tested, i.e. 7025/12AX7, 12AU7, 6L6GC, and GZ34.
The Tube Amp Doctor, Mesa, and Ruby tubesets were all very clean with big presence and very good dynamics, comparing well with my benchmark vintage American tubes from GE and Slyvania, and seemingly Interchangeable in terms of tone and response, although the Mesa preamp tubes seemed a bit hotter.
Elektro-Harmonix 12AX7 and 12AT7 tested were notably louder, thus noisier and hotter in the circuit, somewhat ratty sounding to my ears, although one rock guitarist friend really liked them.
The JJ tubes had a sound and feel of their own, not as hot as the EH but still a warming, wailing edge that I found conducive to rock steel and Strat work, but the clear bell tones I love for other genres suffered. Several other guitarists who played through this setup liked it the best of the survey.
A couple of relevant notes:
The JJ 6L6GC seemed to run hotter at a given bias voltage than the others tested. When the amp was biased at ~29-30ma with TAD and Sylvania tubes, swapping in the JJ's ran it up to ~32-33ma, definitely a contributor to the hotter response.
In my petsonal experience both TAD and JJ GZ34 rectifier tubes have consistently had shorter life in real-world service than expected. I'm sticking with Mullard for new rectifiers, and always carry a Yellow Jacket as a backup. |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 11:59 am
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@ AJM:
EL 34s entered the picture when I looked up the amp. Iβm unfamiliar with the amp, and when I looked it up, thatβs what it said. Bill never mentioned what tubes they were. I also didnβt know it would run different tubes at the flick of a switch! Sounds like an interesting amp. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 12:26 pm
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| Might want to run this past Ken Fox. As far as I know, he's still a big proponent and user of JJ tubes. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 18 Nov 2022 12:08 pm
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In the FWIW department..........
Mesa Boogie lists at least 3 different types of 6L6 tubes on their site.
They list no technical data for them concerning plate voltage, bias current, etc etc etc.
I have not tried contacting them. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2022 5:29 am
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| ajm wrote: |
In the FWIW department..........
Mesa Boogie lists at least 3 different types of 6L6 tubes on their site.
They list no technical data for them concerning plate voltage, bias current, etc etc etc.
I have not tried contacting them. |
The V3 had been set up with 6L6GC I believe.
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2022 12:24 pm
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I don't have any specs or anything, but I do notice a difference, subtle but not unimportant, between different brands of tubes. I don't think they're bad, but I'm not a huge fan of JJ's.
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