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Topic: D13th best yet updated. |
Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 15 Oct 2022 10:36 am |
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I believe this is the best layed out most comprehensive version of this tuning to date. For those not interested in my verticle knee it can be substituted with lowering the 7th string a whole tone or any other change. The change that is there is essential for Curly Chalker stuff. For guys that play Emmons setup you can make the obvious switch around.
The 4th and 9th string are setup like the standard 2nd and 9th string knee lever so that the 4th string can lower to Db independently of the 9th. I use the split tuning screw on string 4 to keep it from going past Db when 9th string engages.
This is the version that's currently on my guitar and is going on my new Tour Pro.
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Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Last edited by Johnny Cox on 6 Nov 2022 7:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 15 Oct 2022 5:26 pm
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Remarkable…….
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RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 4:53 am
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| Johnny you said,,for those guys that play Emmons set up,,,,,do you play Day set up,,,,or is pedal and KL set up for Day??? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 6:55 am
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It's very well thought out, Johnny.
I'm still debating your suggestion (seen above) to put 'old' P5 on RKL. If I leave it on 'new' P4 (see below), I'll have my diminished with 4 and 5, just as I do now with 5 and 6 on C6. I'm still undecided; I'm so used to lowering the Bs on RKL that there's a logic to adopting your approach.
I have a couple of pulls that are 'surplus'; they're there just in case I can't get on with the 13th and need to convert on an Ext E9. They'll be 'wound off' as I study the new tuning.
I think that's unlikely, however, and I'm excited to get started and, while I have no choice, I can hardly wait for my new guitar.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 16 Oct 2022 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Poston
From:
Albuquerque, NM, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 8:07 am
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| If I ever do this with emmons setup I'd probably reverse all pedals 1-5. Not sure how hard an adjustment it would be to have typical 5 and 6 pedals reversed but they all make sense together under the left foot in that order. I'd 2 foot pedal 6 and over anyway just like on typical C6 |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 10:55 am
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| Sonny Jenkins wrote: |
| Johnny you said,,for those guys that play Emmons set up,,,,,do you play Day set up,,,,or is pedal and KL set up for Day??? |
I play Day setup 90% of the time. All of my guitars are Day on pedals and knees. I started on Emmons but switched to Day.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 11:01 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
It's very well thought out, Johnny.
I'm still debating your suggestion (seen above) to put 'old' P5 on RKL. If I leave it on 'new' P4 (see below), I'll have my diminished with 4 and 5, just as I do now with 5 and 6 on C6. I'm still undecided; I'm so used to lowering the Bs on RKL that there's a logic to adopting your approach.
I have a couple of pulls that are 'surplus'; they're there just in case I can't get on with the 13th and need to convert on an Ext E9. They'll be 'wound off' as I study the new tuning.
I think that's unlikely, however, and I'm excited to get started and, while I have no choice, I can hardly wait for my new guitar.
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I love and can't live without my 4th pedal. It's a Reece Anderson thing for C6th and half of the Franklin pedal when playing country stuff. Lowering the As on a knee lever is essential plus by doing that it allowed me to drop Lowering the 5th string as I can split P3 and RKL. Now I can put raising the 8th a half on the LKLO.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 16 Oct 2022 3:18 pm
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I raise my 10th and 6th to D and F respectively on C6th now. It's a nice 2m chord.
I should have the same with pedals 1 and 2 on my 12-string. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 17 Oct 2022 6:55 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
I raise my 10th and 6th to D and F respectively on C6th now. It's a nice 2m chord.
I should have the same with pedals 1 and 2 on my 12-string. |
Actually not because you lose the F# note below the G. That's what makes the chord so pretty. Try tuning down the 5th string on your C6th and you will hear what I mean. Also same with E9th.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 17 Oct 2022 9:03 am
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Johnny Cox:
I just retuned my C6 to give me those notes: what a beautiful chord - a Dm/aug7/add9 from the 10th to the 2nd!
My only reluctance to move my new P4 to RKL is that a lot of thought has gone into my version of your D13 to make it as close to my exiting 19/C6 set up as possible. Having 'old' P5 adjacent to P6 has been my norm for so long.
But, so has lowering my Bs on E9 on RKL.
I have to think of this as one tuning; I still have them as two halves in my mind - a D9 and a D6.
It would take some major shifting around; I doubt Bill Rudolph is even close to rodding up my guitar but he's already had to deal with my changes of heart here and there!
The main purpose of MY RKL on my D13 is to give me that C note on the 5th string - with pedals down, it'd make a lovely Gsus4 and, of course, a D7 with pedals up.
The only reason I'm raising the 5th to C on P3 is to avoid the sympathetic resonance - IF it becomes a problem. Anyway, raising the 5th to a C should be independent of the main pedals for my purpose. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 17 Oct 2022 5:46 pm
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The beauty of this tuning is you can set it up many different ways. The way I have it allows me to achieve everything I had on my triple neck Zum. The only change from that guitar not on my current setup is the equivalent of lowering the E9th 6th string a whole tone. I don't use that anymore so no loss. BTW, the triple neck was 10/10/11 with 9x9. E13th, E9th and C6th.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Markus Mayerhofer
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 19 Oct 2022 11:55 am
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| Johnny Cox wrote: |
| The beauty of this tuning is you can set it up many different ways. The way I have it allows me to achieve everything I had on my triple neck Zum. The only change from that guitar not on my current setup is the equivalent of lowering the E9th 6th string a whole tone. I don't use that anymore so no loss. BTW, the triple neck was 10/10/11 with 9x9. E13th, E9th and C6th. |
Johnny, please allow me a question. I can't see, what your vertical lever does on the upper strings, i see a big Dom7 chord on strings 12 to 4 but i cant figure out. whats goin on on strings 3, 2, 1...? Does that work in conjunction with another pedal? I can't get behind it....
Same question for LKLO...
I'm sorry but i guess i'm a little copedant blind...
What to do, if your guitar is not capable of split-tunings? |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2022 8:48 am
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Such a well thought out copedent! That P4 change (I have that lower on my RKL) is such an important change on my Bb6 - couldn’t live without it!
Beautiful work, Johnny
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 20 Oct 2022 4:39 pm
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| Markus Mayerhofer wrote: |
| Johnny Cox wrote: |
| The beauty of this tuning is you can set it up many different ways. The way I have it allows me to achieve everything I had on my triple neck Zum. The only change from that guitar not on my current setup is the equivalent of lowering the E9th 6th string a whole tone. I don't use that anymore so no loss. BTW, the triple neck was 10/10/11 with 9x9. E13th, E9th and C6th. |
Johnny, please allow me a question. I can't see, what your vertical lever does on the upper strings, i see a big Dom7 chord on strings 12 to 4 but i cant figure out. whats goin on on strings 3, 2, 1...? Does that work in conjunction with another pedal? I can't get behind it....
Same question for LKLO...
I'm sorry but i guess i'm a little copedant blind...
What to do, if your guitar is not capable of split-tunings? |
It's a combination of Curly Chalker's two vertical knees levers. I use it in several ways. With the RKL or the 7th pedal. Or just to use it to raise the 1st or 5th a half. I can't tell you the name of the chords, I just don't know the name. I can play examples on a video on my Facebook D13th Enthusiasts page when I get home.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 20 Oct 2022 4:42 pm
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
Such a well thought out copedent! That P4 change (I have that lower on my RKL) is such an important change on my Bb6 - couldn’t live without it!
Beautiful work, Johnny |
Thank you Christopher. It's really got the best of all worlds. The normal E9th stuff. The normal C6th stuff plus the Chalker and Reece stuff I love.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 6 Nov 2022 7:42 am Update
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So I finally got to play the version of D13th that I planned to put on my new guitar in real world situations on Saturday. On paper and in the living room it's great. In the gig situations I find that no matter how much I want to I can't get used to the pedal that is the equivalent to the C6th P5 on a knee lever. So I'm going to put it back on the floor and rearrange a couple knees to keep me from going back to 8 pedals.
Stay tuned.
Update: after looking at several other possibilities this morning it's back to 8 pedals. (Kyle Bennett is going to hate me LOL).
So here is the update. Fortunately MSA has an actually Pedal 0. An extra pedal space to the left of pedal one. The position I have my left leg knee levers in is perfect for moving AB&C, or in my case CBA to the left one space so that P7 & P8 are'nt such a stretch for my short legs. This was how my guitar was set up when it was a D12.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Last edited by Johnny Cox on 11 Nov 2022 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Nov 2022 7:48 am
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Does MSA automatically install a zero pedal cross-shaft or will they have to disassemble the underside?
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 6 Nov 2022 7:54 am
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| Ignore that, JC - you answered me elsewhere. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2022 5:15 pm
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8 pedal version in Excel Spreadsheet, jpg and pdf version in case you want to edit your own. I added the RKV to incorporate a few changes I like and also to have an experimental knee lever.
PDF format!
Excel format
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 7 Nov 2022 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Justin Shaw
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 6 Nov 2022 9:16 pm
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Hi Everyone
Greg thank you for the transpositions but aren't those the 7 pedal versions again? |
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