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Topic: Threading welding rod |
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2022 2:07 pm |
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| Any tips for threading 3/32" or various sized of rod? How long should the threaded portion be? I did manage to put a 4-40 thread on the rod, about 1 3/16" long. It is not great, but it seems like it might work. I ground a little taper on the end that helped. The rod I am using is ER70S-2 Tig rod 3/32". I also thought about trying brazing rod which comes in this size. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2022 9:35 pm
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Have bought 3/32" 308L Stainless steel rod, At a local welding Shop, To make Pull Rods. MATHESON part no. MSS 308LT500MS. Cuts good, And produces smooth threads.
The taper on the rod to start die is a good idea.
Use oil on Die and Rod while cutting threads. Only turn die 1/2 turn (180 degrees) Then back up tap 1/4 turn (90 degrees) to break chips, So chips will come out of die. If chips pile up in the die it will tear the threads.
Most guitars only have 1/2" to 3/4" of the rod threaded. It is a good rule to not have rod threads dragging through the changer finger holes. Many guitar companies use a short sleeve of plastic or metal in front of the tuning nut, To make sure only smooth rod slides through the changer finger.
Be sure to use a new plastic tuning nut on the hand cut threads.
All factory pull rods I have worked with have Rolled Threads, Rolled threads are larger in diameter than die cut threads, And will make a loose fit of a used tuning nut.
I have not seen Bronze Brazing rods Smaller than 1/8", Made a couple quick fix rods for an old MSA out of them.
Good Luck in this project. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2022 5:19 am
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| Quote: |
| It is a good rule to not have rod threads dragging through the changer finger holes. |
I was wondering about that.
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| I have not seen Bronze Brazing rods Smaller than 1/8" |
I have an old stash of flux coated brazing rods. I will double check but I am pretty sure they were 3/32". The flux is falling off so I figured I could possibly use them if I clean them up a bit. It is not something I would use if I didn't already have them.
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| Good Luck in this project. |
Thank You! |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2022 1:36 pm
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Check the flux covered rods, They may be 3/32".
I have dealt with flux covered rods that was smaller for a couple special jobs.
I did not want to suggest you buy flux covered rods, That are more expensive. And the rod would have to have the flux beat off them, And the rods polished with Steel wool before they could be used for pull rods. |
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Ted Duncan
From:
Georgia, USA
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Larry Hobson
From:
Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2022 3:30 pm Threading rods
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| Tim,. Saw this post and just had to reply. Many post have discussed this topic in the past. Do a search. Threaded rods are available. Having a rod already threaded only requires cutting to length and preparing the bell cranks end of the rod as required for your application. Recent rod purchases from Du-Bro Products inc. have been used by myself.part # 145-6 (30 in. 4-40 threaded rods) also part # 802 (12 in. 4-40 threaded end.) These rods are .092 diameter and have rolled threads with.106 diameter. Note ; part # 145-6 may be a quantity of 6 rods, not sure, one rod may be just #145. Good luck. |
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Larry Hobson
From:
Valley Grande (Selma) Al USA
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 24 Oct 2022 3:59 pm
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| I've been using ER70S-2 Tig rod 3/32" Tim, to add pulls on a Carter and an MCI for a few years. Works just fine. It's cheap and it's easier to work and thread. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2022 5:59 am
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| Quote: |
| Saw this post and just had to reply. Many post have discussed this topic in the past. Do a search. Threaded rods are available. |
Yah I found a lot of those discussions. I went down the rabbit hole for hours and after that I still wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. I guess this is a different ways to skin a cat situation. Now based on new advice, I am wondering if using a larger diameter might be better since this is a pull/release guitar.
Of course the other side of this question is how to make hex nylon tuning nuts. I bought some nylon electrical standoffs that I thought might work, but if I switch to 1/8" rod I think will need a larger size. I would prefer to just buy nylon hex rod, but had trouble finding it. If I remember correctly 1/8" rod take a 5-40 thread pretty well.? Thanks for all the comments, I am getting there. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2022 7:51 pm
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1/8" Pull rods works best if it is threaded 6-40.
6-40 gives a smoother/closer adjustment of pulls than the common 6-32 thread on rods.
Old Classic MSA's rods use 1/8" with 6-40 thread, And use a standard 3/16" Hex Plastic/Nylon tuning nuts with a 7/64" hole, The rod threads, Will cut threads in the plastic nut as installed.
5-40 is a little small for a 1/8" rod, Makes quite an offset at the Rod/Thread junction.
5-40 is the standard size for those odd size 7/64" rods, Used on Emmons Steels with E-clips to hold the pull rod in the Bell Crank.
Good Luck in this project, Happy Building. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 2 Nov 2022 3:17 pm
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McCarr have "easy to machine" 303 stainless rod in imperial and metric in a wide a range of diameters.
https://www.mcmaster.com/stainless-steel-rod/tight-tolerance-easy-to-machine-303-stainless-steel/
I did some extra pull rods for my Excel which uses metric small diameter rods (much smaller than an MSA or Emmons) and could cut the thread with good lubrication using a hand tap perfectly.
I would not recommend using "welding rod".
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2022 5:56 am
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| Quote: |
| McCarr have "easy to machine" 303 stainless rod in imperial and metric in a wide a range of diameters. |
This looks like the ideal material, but for this project I am trying to use only cheap available materials. It is really just a prototype proof of concept project. If I ever build another, I will be using only materials that will stand the test of time. Stainless welding rod seems like it would fit that bill as well. It may not take a thread as nice as the "easy to machine stuff" and probably not much cheaper. So I guess that should be taken into consideration. As far as the threading process goes, I will have to be a little more patient and clear the chips frequently. Hopefully that will make a nicer thread. My first attempt is pretty rough, but my tuning nuts do thread on ok. I am going to stick with 3/32" for now. I did find some people using that on their Marlen guitars so hopefully will work. Thanks again! |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 3 Nov 2022 12:31 pm
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| McCarr have "easy to machine" 303 stainless rod in imperial and metric in a wide a range of diameters. |
This looks like the ideal material, but for this project I am trying to use only cheap available materials. It is really just a prototype proof of concept project. If I ever build another, I will be using only materials that will stand the test of time. Stainless welding rod seems like it would fit that bill as well. It may not take a thread as nice as the "easy to machine stuff" and probably not much cheaper. So I guess that should be taken into consideration. As far as the threading process goes, I will have to be a little more patient and clear the chips frequently. Hopefully that will make a nicer thread. My first attempt is pretty rough, but my tuning nuts do thread on ok. I am going to stick with 3/32" for now. I did find some people using that on their Marlen guitars so hopefully will work. Thanks again! |
I have just gone to a steel supply place a bought a 3 metre length of 1/8 “ mild steel rod for about $5
Also little wastage as cut length exact to suit. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Nov 2022 11:38 am
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If you order bulk rod material, Check the length and have it cut the 36"/1 Meter lengths. I ordered 48 ft of 7/64" stainless rod to make a set of Emmons E clip rods for a friend rebuilding a D-10 guitar. When the rod arrived at Fastenal there was 2 20' and 1 8' rods taped to a 20 foot wood 1"X3", The shipping was more than the rods cost.
The next time I ordered rod I had it cut 3 foot lengths and there was no extra charge on shipping. |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 12 Dec 2022 12:24 pm
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I have used 3/32 SS for over 30 years on Sho-Buds, Excels and others, .comes in 3’ lengths at a welding supply.. 5-40 die
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2022 8:43 pm
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Adjustable dies, Like in the picture, Are the best dies to use when threading welding rod, Welding rod is made with some variance in size. The adjustable die allows a few thousands adjustment to level the threads with the shaft surface so the nylon tuning nuts will run smooth onto the rod shaft.
Every good machine shop I have been around, Have a set of adjustable dies to fit threads to threaded holes in the repair parts. |
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