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Topic: Ab6 tuning? |
Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2022 3:42 pm |
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Anyone ever use a A flat tuning? I'm playing with a singer who uses Ab & Bb on most of her stuff.
Any problem with a A6 dropped to a Ab6? Or any other possibilities out there before I just do it?
Thanks!
Bud
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Robert Murphy
From:
West Virginia
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Posted 28 Oct 2022 12:57 am
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| If you use open strings for licks then by all means do it. In C6 tuning your key center would be a the 8th fret and that’s where I would play. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2022 7:56 am
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| I cannot think of a reason not to tune to Ab (or Bb, or whatever), as long as you use the appropriate string gauges. I have 6-string lap steels set up with the same intervals as standard C6 (1-3-5-6-1-3) in both G6 an A6. I tried E6 (like Don Helms), but found the skinny strings to be too whiny for my taste. I'm planning to set up my current project -- a rescue BR-9 -- for D6. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2022 8:28 am
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Yeah I'm gonna do it. I have been playing C6, use same intervals, Ab. I'll look at Ely's chart for the correct gauges and give it a whirl. Any other ideas before I do it this weekend are more than welcome. Thanks all!
Bud
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 28 Oct 2022 8:31 am
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| John Ely's site is great but doesn't incorporate scale length which has a dramatic effect on gauges. After using John's site for years, I now use this tool to determine gauge by scale length. https://tension.stringjoy.com/ |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2022 8:33 am
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Thanks you Bill 
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 29 Oct 2022 12:00 am
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| John Ely's site is great but doesn't incorporate scale length which has a dramatic effect on gauges. After using John's site for years, I now use this tool to determine gauge by scale length. https://tension.stringjoy.com/ |
John Ely's site suggests gauges for short, medium and long scale (22.5", 24" and 26") which is fine for most people. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 29 Oct 2022 3:23 pm
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Tuning down a half step shouldn't require a change of gauges. When I tuned the C6 neck of my PSG down to B (as a preparation for converting to universal) I detected no change in sound or feel.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 29 Oct 2022 3:38 pm
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I'd agree with Ian. There are a lot of tunings based around, for example, C6, where a string here and there is flattened or sharped by a half step (B11, C6A7, D9, and others...even A6 from a C6 base tuning is pretty easy). If you have a string set appropriate for A6, then I think you could reasonably go to Ab6 without necessarily coming up with a custom string set for that. Maybe if you stayed in that tuning for years, and felt the tension was light, you might justify a custom set, but only going down a halfstep I'd say just play with it and see how you like it.
Sounds like you are in C6 currently...so going to A6 (edit I meant Ab6 here) would be:
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
A - Ab flatted 1/2 step
G - F flatted whole step
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
I'd say worth tinkering with without a string change at first at least.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me
Last edited by Nic Neufeld on 31 Oct 2022 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2022 6:42 pm
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Nic,
You said like this- Yes I see it-easy to change tuning
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
A - Ab flatted 1/2 step
G - F flatted whole step
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
Shouldn't it be like this- So the intervals and strings are the same?
C6 A6b
E - C
C - Ab
A - F
G - Eb
E - C
C - Ab
Thanks to all for input, this is like a universal brain helping me out !
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 30 Oct 2022 12:19 am
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Anywho retune if you need to
Sounds like practicing in all keys may be the best long term answer but that takes time to self study.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 31 Oct 2022 4:02 am
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| Bud Angelotti wrote: |
Nic,
You said like this- Yes I see it-easy to change tuning
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
A - Ab flatted 1/2 step
G - F flatted whole step
E - Eb flatted 1/2 step
C - C no change
Shouldn't it be like this- So the intervals and strings are the same?
C6 A6b
E - C
C - Ab
A - F
G - Eb
E - C
C - Ab
Thanks to all for input, this is like a universal brain helping me out ! |
Well, it depends which version of "A6" you are thinking of. -most- 6 string versions of A6 that I know of use very similar gauges as the (usual) C6 tuning, but the strings aren't lined up exactly in intervals. A6 usually has a high 5th (E) and C6 usually has a high 3rd (also E). So assuming these two tunings as the (arguably) most common version, you'll see the pattern is different:
C6
C E G A C E
1-3-5-6-1-3
A6
C#-E-F#-A-C#-E
3-5-6-1-3-5
That way you can use roughly the same gauges for each (A6 basically gains another string up top and loses the low root, compared to the standard C6). If you tried to take the same strings down to A6 or Ab6 but maintain the same pattern as C6 above, you're strings would get really loose. Can you do it with a string change? Sure, but I'd first just move to the A6 pattern, and detune it by a half step and you're already in the ballpark with those strings.
A lot of people prefer the high fifth pattern, with A6 and even C6 (though that requires a much thinner string for C6 high G tuning), too. So as a first step, maybe try the "A6 pattern" 3-5-6-1-3-5 with your current C6 strings in Ab and if you find you really prefer the "C6 pattern" (1-3-5-6-1-3) you can purchase a custom set of string gauges that will allow you to string it up for that optimally.
Steel Guitar Hive Mind, feel free to correct me if I'm talking nonsense
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2022 10:46 am
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Thanks so much all!
I tried it Nic - works great, easy peasy !
But, I think I miss the root on the bottom string.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2022 8:07 pm
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I do find a difference in tuning down 1/2 step. I gauge strings for each tuning, for each scale size I use. I buy single strings from JustStrings.com (I am just a satisfied customer) and make up 5 sets at a time.
For my lap steels I try to keep the tension between 28 to 30 lbs pull per string. My 6 string C6 tuning is:
(L2H) C E G A C E
My 6 string A6 tuning is:
(L2H) A C# E F# A C#
Thus the fingering pattern is the same as each note is dropped 1 1/2 steps. You need thicker strings for A6.
To calculate the tension you have to know which octave each note is in. See the 7th post in this thread (mine) for examples.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=386893&highlight=
There are a number of on-line string tension calculators available - D'Addario's is off-line now and should be back up in 2023.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2022 7:21 am
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Bud,
What scale length guitar are you using?
How many strings does it have?
We kinda assumed that you are using 6 but it could be 8 (or 7).
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster Quad black
PedalMaster D8 |
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