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Topic: Older MSA Endplate Holes |
Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 8:00 am |
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Hi Folks
Just trying to get some opinions here as a lot of you were/are closer to the source than I am. Years ago I think Back in the 70's... (Bud Carter/MSA)... had what seams to be guide holes in the changer end plate...(see Picture)...am I correct in saying that this old technology and can be updated by removing the drilled holes and just making a window like newer guitars. Maybe even shorten the sleeves a bit to tuck the tuning nuts in the window nice and neat. I know guitars like Mullen for eg; on the RP and older, not sure about the G2..They use a 3/4 inch sleeve and then a 3/4 nut. So my way of thinking this can be done with these older MSA's. What do you folks think. Please let me know
thanks
wayne
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 2:00 pm
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The quick answer is...yes, you can do it, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. And if the guitar is set up properly, the rods won't stick out past the endplate! Rods that do stick out are subject to damage, and I've also seen players tear clothing on protruding pull rods. It's just a bad idea. 
| Quote: |
| Years ago I think Back in the 70's... (Bud Carter/MSA)... had what seams to be guide holes in the changer end plate...am I correct in saying that this old technology and can be updated by removing the drilled holes and just making a window like newer guitars? |
That's not really "old technology", just an earlier idea. Eliminating the holes (or slots, as in a few newer guitars) and having just one big gaping hole is not an upgrade! It's a cost-saving measure; a way to make the guitars faster and cheaper. 
Every manufacturer cuts corners to save money.
(It's like those little vent wings they used to have in cars and trucks decades ago. Manufacturers told people that they were eliminated for better visibility and to improve aerodynamics. The real reason was just to save money in manufacturing, a savings that didn't have to be passed on to the consumer.) |
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 1:37 am steel guitar
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Thanks Donny that's what i thought as well. I was just checking to see if i was missing some reason why Bud Carter and some other used basically a guide for three points of contact in a straight line.
Having the holes there creates some engineering issues for the guitar i just built, and a older MSA i have here as well. Removing them, I can correct those issues. I could not think of any reason to have them there, however i wanted to check with fellow forum members, there take on it before i removed them as i only get one shot at it. I can't put them back once there gone.
Thanks
Wayne
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 5:19 am
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My old BMI has the holes. It presents some additional tech requirements. Rods must pass through the changer as straight as possible in order to line up through these holes and not cause friction and hangups. Orderly rodding is always good and recommended practice, but this setup can be especially unforgiving of severe bellcrank hole-to-changer angles and imprecise rod bending etc.
It is also less forgiving of imprecise rod and nut length than the open window construction.
I am not saying it does not work perfectly well. Just that rodding needs to be more orderly, that you can't get away with things that you can with the open window.
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 8:54 am steel guitar
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Thanks for the responses i have the answers i needed. Mods please close.
thanks
wayne
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Sep 2022 12:01 pm
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| Yes, the holes do require some careful rod alignment. To that end, the guitars with vertical slots instead of holes may be the more forgiving and practical design. I don't like eliminating the "guide" aspect completely and hogging out the big hole as some support in that area does help protect the changer fingers, somewhat, if a rod gets hit or caught on something. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2022 12:51 pm
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With the 1/4" round aluminum sleeves and 3/16" tuning nuts, And the aligning plate. Gives the tuning nuts some side clearance. Makes it easy to slide a tuning wrench on to adjust a pull, I played MSA guitars for about 18 years. Tuning wrench went on nut easy.
With no plate to keep the tuning nuts separated from each other, Certain tuning nuts are sometimes hard to get a tuning wrench on.
From an engineering point the MSA set up was great, For The Bean Counter leave those aluminum sleeves and plate out, It will be cheaper to produce. |
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 12 Sep 2022 3:25 pm steel guitar
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I thank you all for your input however as stated in the original post i was looking for any mechanical reason they are there, not a cost analyse. I had to make some adjustments on a changer and the holes impeded this. They have since been removed and the adjustment made, and without any more engineering issues.
thanks
wayne
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Sep 2022 10:31 am Re: steel guitar
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| Wayne Brown wrote: |
| I thank you all for your input however as stated in the original post i was looking for any mechanical reason they are there, not a cost analyse. |
Wayne...
On second thought, never mind.  |
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 14 Sep 2022 10:36 am steel guitar
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copy that 
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca |
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