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Topic: volume levels |
Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 11:34 am |
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I'm having trouble controlling my volume levels. I'm in a 6 piece country band. I've convinced everyone to go into the mixer and we play through a Bose array. Sound quality is very good through the Bose. The issue for me is volume level on stage is all over the place. I keep trying to get the band to keep stage volume low and then let the Bose project to the audience. Our lead guitar player is the real culprit, almost always having his amp too loud on stage. So for me, there are really 2 challenges: I have trouble hearing myself over the lead guitar and then I have trouble gauging my own volume against the vocals. I talked to a good friend and we agree the real problem long term is the guitar player. Short term; he was next to me and we're moving him to the other side of the stage. I'm considering trying In Ear Monitors. I'm thinking they will help me set my volume appropriate the the vocals.
Besides telling me to get rid of the guitar player, any thoughts? Especially regarding In Ear Monitors?
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84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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David Dorwart
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 12:04 pm
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| How do you get an electric guitar player to turn down? - put sheet music in front of him! Bada Boom. One thing that helps me with volume control is to place amp in front of me tilted like a floor wedge monitor. Blasts at me sparing the others ( somewhat ). That also helps with front of house volume not to have electric guitar amp projecting forward |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 12:52 pm
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Because a couple of the bands I play in have good guitarists who I really want to interact with, I do my damnedest to get us to set up side by side. We play well together and we place nice together.
I can attest that splitting stage left/right ought to make a big difference for you. Possibly enough to be the solution to hearing yourself. However, if loud dude's amp bleeds off the stage into the house, you'd best have someone out there who can tell you if the sound is out of whack. It's frustrating playing smallish gigs, doing your own sound, and only guessing what the house mix sounds like.
I hate sounding 'needy' by asking "how do we sound?" I usually look for one of those guys standing in the back with his arms crossed. He is just waiting for someone to ask him his opinion. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 1:27 pm
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Stage volume is generally the province of the lead singer/bandleader.If somebody's getting offensive with the volume it's up to the guy who signs the paychecks to get the miscreant in line; it usually causes more trouble than it's worth for a fellow sideman to take on that task.
All that being said, the player who steps on the other instruments and the vocals is always listening to himself-- and wants the rest of the band to listen to him too.
In the interim, the idea of getting as far away as possible from Mister "it's gonna get loud" is probably the most optimum response. Hopefully that doesn't involve getting away from the whole band.  |
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Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 2:45 pm
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| I like my in- ears. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 5:45 pm
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_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 15 Aug 2022 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Tarrow
From:
Maplewood, NJ
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 5:59 pm
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In-ears are great, but will you always have a spare aux channel on the mixer, long enough sound check, and someone to set up your mix? Is everything miced at every gig? There’s a lot of variables.
Here’s another solution: Put a wedge in front of the guitar player and put his guitar in it. That’s what I ask for if people on stage find my amp too loud. |
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Jon Voth
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2022 7:19 pm
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Hi Steve
I'm a novice, also a 6 person band for almost 3 years, and gone through 3 guitar players, and have some of the same issues with them sometimes. But we have our own sound man which helps (but I'm never out listening because I'm playing and just assume it's all good, which it probably is).
I just think you need the right guitar player, as do I. They might think they are the star but in country music the steel is usually the star.
I only use in ears because I'm worried about my hearing. Otherwise I hate them and go without when I can. But yes it is very hard and I am blessed to always have a soundman. |
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Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 4:48 am
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We had an experienced sound guy set EQ’s for vocals and mix for the band. I’m the sound guy for performances. I control the mixer until we start playing, then we have a guy that stands in the back of the room controlling the mixer with an iPad. Last time we played he had the guitar player totally off in the mixer. The guitar player’s getting all his volume from his amp, making his stage volume too high. We’re rehearsing Friday. Im going to put him on the opposite end from me.
How many of you all use in ears? Think that would help me?
_________________
84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 6:29 am
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[quote="Jon Voth"
They might think they are the star but in country music the steel is usually the star.
Yeah, 55-60 years ago, that may have been the case.. That statement hasn't been true in a VERY long time...
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 6:31 am
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If you are trying to hear your own instrument out of a single Bose column with the entire mix in it you are fighting a losing battle. Not only is the radiating surface too small to provide that level of detail at any distance but your mind cannot separate your part from the whole if it's all coming from one place. You can try but it is an ultimate exercise in futility, that's just how the ears and mind process audible information.
If you are feeding the Bose with your own nearby amp you can try to put it closer to your ears, or use it like a personal monitor wedge, so that you can discretely hear the subtleties of what your hands are doing and still keep the stage level down.
Very, VERY often what is perceived to be too loud is not about the volume level at all but simply a case of poor musicianship, as in constantly playing over the top of everything rather than leaving space for the other voices. Music should be a conversation not a rant. Best practices dictate that when the singer opens their mouth the drummer stops hitting cymbals, the lead instruments only play counterpoint to the vocals, and everybody listens to what everyone else is doing ALL the time. Someone who plays over the top of everyone else is much worse than one who makes appropriate choices loudly. One does not have to play too loud to make it impossible for others to hear themselves, or for the audience to hear the music.
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 15 Aug 2022 6:49 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 6:33 am
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| Chris Tarrow wrote: |
| Put a wedge in front of the guitar player and put his guitar in it. That’s what I ask for if people on stage find my amp too loud. |
Always effective |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 8:18 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| Chris Tarrow wrote: |
| Put a wedge in front of the guitar player and put his guitar in it. That’s what I ask for if people on stage find my amp too loud. |
Always effective |
Or have Mr. Loudly put his amp in front of himself pointed at his head. I used to do this in bands that were too loud for my guitar. I hated the directional isolation of certain frequencies in the sound coming from the speaker, but at least I could tell wtf I was playing without having to compete in the volume war.
The point David made in his first post about players not knowing how to have a decent musical conversation or when to shut up and just look stupid instead of overplaying and removing all doubt is well taken also. |
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Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 8:30 am
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I have my speaker cab behind me and to my right. I'm also in the mixer. I think I need to be a little bolder with my fills and no I don't play over the singer. The complication is the lead guitar's volume. I'm trying to manage my stage volume against what I hear the vocalists doing, but the lead guitar is dominating the sound overall. Putting his amp in front of him might help, or it might not. We can try.
_________________
84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 9:53 am
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When the overall volume in the room is above a certain level I lose the ability to hear pitch. The guys with frets don't know what I mean.
My current project is to re-educate a drummer who wears earplugs to protect himself from his own sound, and then asks everyone to turn up because he can't hear them.
He's a good player and a nice guy and I don't want to upset him, I just need to rearrange his thinking.
(Note - we are not allowed firearms over here, even pretend ones)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 15 Aug 2022 10:24 am
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Ian- the fix for your drummer might be to mic all the amps and all the vocals, get hold of one of those plexiglass multi-panel drum isolators to put around his kit, and supply him with a set of in-ears and a little mixer so he can fine tune his own stage mix.
The downside is, of course, who's going to pay the freight on all that technology and the guy running FOH. The mice in the walls had the same issue when deciding who was going to bell the cat |
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