Learning C6th?

Tomas Enguidanos · From: California, USA

I love good C6th playing. I particularly love Western Swing. I tend to use my C6th neck to play Western Swing and Hank Williams era songs. But I find the pedals mysterious. I took Paul Franklins method for a while but while I love his playing on George Straight and on the Time Jumpers, I just was not getting his method of explaining the “how to” on this neck. Also his copedent was different than Emmons’.

I am now using Jeff Newman’s course and have made some progress with that course mainly have learned pedals 5 and 6, creating 7th chords all over the neck. I think this course may help.

I am wondering what other online or DVD resources folks have had success learning this great tuning with? Also any good teachers on C6th that can teach on Skype or in person would be valuable?

Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

mike sweeney gives skype lessons and tutorials. you can join his group and be part of his monthly webinar's where you can ask specific ways to play. they are great. go to product announcement section to find him.

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Tomas, I'm pretty new to C6th, I guess just in the last year, but did rest my arms on that neck for 45+ years, with just an occasional frustrating "lets give it a go".

I'm mainly a hunt and peck player that latches on to an example here and an example there and then try to wear that little bit of knowledge out until I'm able to expand on it.

There are some good C6th sources that are pretty valuable to help make sense of things. I've used Herb Steiner's Approach to C6th when I'm looking for a certain type of chord, and also Jim Cohen's C6th for E9th players helped with finding "pedals down & pedals up" stuff. For Skype lessons you may want to look at Jody Cameron and Buck Reid as well as Mike Sweeney. All with a wealth of knowledge and teaching skills. Rick Schmidt and Steve Catamore are also a couple of great guys who may be able to help.
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Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=368401&highlight=tutorials

Ron Hogan · From: Nashville, TN, usa

I have a lesson available on playing two familiar tunes that are usually played on E9th. Release me and Crazy arms.

These are played with a very basic C6 setup that almost every player has. You can use these positions for other tunes. It gives you the pattern so that you can then transfer it to other tunes. Because those two tunes are very basic and common progressions, it helps simplify.

CLICK HERE

I would also recommend Buddy Emmons' Basic C6 course. He shows you the similarities between E9th and C6th. You do have to listen to it many times for it all to sink in and maybe review it again down the road. I've been know to listen to it while driving (all that wasted time behind the wheel).

https://steelguitars.me/

Ron Hogan · From: Nashville, TN, usa

Tomas,
Hang in there. I didn't touch my C6 neck hardly for the first 20 years of my career. But then they "Released the Cracken"!

I find now a days I practice the C6 75% of the time. Hooked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJMp36rgOc

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

+1 for Buddy Emmons. I got the basics down in no time.

Don't bother trying to play 4 note chords with 3 picks. Get another pick, you'll never look back!
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Gary Spaeth · From: Wisconsin, USA

buddy's pockets lesson shows where to find notes. http://www.buddyemmons.com/Pockets.htm

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Hi Tomas - I played C6th no pedals several years before doing E9th so I think I am in a somewhat similar situation as you are; After losing an argument on the Forum I now tune my C6th neck down 1/2 step to B6th which sacrifices NOTHING in learning C6th with pedals, but which lines up all the frets on both necks to the same B6th and E9th root notes. Its like having one big 20 string guitar sometimes. C6th experts might not notice the difference and have lots of muscle memory, but for someone who is just getting used to the pedals on the second neck I find that tuning down to B6th allows me to visualize and transpose learning from one neck to the other more easily. It reinforces new learning on the B6th neck, and it expands my realization of what I had already been playing on the E9th neck. My retention and memory of new positions seem to go way up.

Unfortunately there is also the other side of the coin, which is going back to baby steps and getting used to the new pedal positions, forgetting about how long that it took to develop playing such familiar E9th pedal combinations such as A+F, or other stock combinations.

But for me, it has been a big step forward in my learning to tune my second neck down to B6th, and I have not gone back since that day.
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Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

There is an old Paul Franklin cassette tape lesson from a long time ago where he names all of the C6 pedals for the chords that they create, like the "sharp 9" pedal for the 8th pedal and the "minor pedal" for the 6ths pedal, Major 9 pedal for the Seventh. I can't recall what he called the other two pedals, but these all relate to the how the pedals effect the basic open triads on the C6 tuning. He then demonstrates it all by applying it to an old C&W standard, I believe it was "Help Me Make It Through The Night". I had it years ago and sadly lost it. If you can find it, I always remember it being a great lesson. I got a lot out of it, but I didn't retain it because most of what I was doing on stage was E9 stuff and I never got to let the lesson sink in like it should have. The Buddy Emmons Basic C6 course is really good, and I'm sure everything else that has been mentioned is good too. Good luck.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Bobby Hearn · From: Henrietta, Tx

Are the Newman instruction packs still available?

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I endorse Richard's tip of tuning down to B6. It makes absolutely no difference to the sound or feel but it meant I could switch to universal seamlessly.

You get used to reading tab up a fret.
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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Luke Sullivan · From: El Paso de Robles, CA, USA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExyrFa5f1Q

Bobbe's approach and attitude was useful for me to get going.

Other good stuff is his "As Time Goes By " album. If I recall, its all C6, and in the key of C.
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Bobby Hearn · From: Henrietta, Tx

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I have contacted Tom Bradshaw about this, this past Saturday and he is indeed collecting all of Jeff's material with the hopes of eventually obtaining a release to make it available to the public.

Please see THIS thread about the subject HERE -> https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=374597

Because of my postings here and on other threads I am getting requests for copies of what I have.
I am currently quite frankly reticent to make copies available to individuals because of the litigious society the US has turned into.

So, at the current time, I am not sending out copies.

But, IF Tom Bradshaw can provide me with a release I will supply him with all I got.

Again, I urge people who have un-used material to either SELL it here on the Forum or other online outlets to those in need for it, and/or contact Tom Bradshaw about him making it available to the public.

Thanks!... J-D.
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I too was a late starter on the back neck.

I recall some advice I gleaned from someone, somewhere. It was along these lines:

'Every time you sit down to play a tune or even a lick, leave the top neck alone and, despite the difficulties, work it out on the C neck.'

I didn't follow this wisdom to the letter but I did give it precedence.

The key, to me anyway, is to learn where all the basic chords - majors, minors, 7ths, 9ths, diminished, etc. - lie on the neck and with what pedal (or combination).

No pedals: minors and 6th chords (Am/C6 at zero fret)
Also, using the 9th string as the root, there's the Fmaj9.

The 5th pedal gives you a D9 at the zero fret. Now you know that you have every 9th chord - you just need to learn the intervals and, for example, know that G9 must be at fret 5 and so on.

Pedal 6 gives a seventh chord: F7th at the zero fret. Count backwards and forwards until you reach the point where, when you see a chord symbol, you know the pedal and the fret.

And so on...

That will greatly enhance your knowledge of the neck's geography.

It was easy on E9, right? It's easy on C6, too; just different.

Having said all that, I will admit that the first glimmer of light I got was from Buddy's 'Basic C6' course. It's an intelligent approach.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I think that C6th may seem difficult for E9th players to understand, because E9th is very unique in it's "system".
E9th downright REQUIRES immediate use of A&B-pedals to make the sounds it is expected to do.
E9th styles have evolved a lot since players flocked to it without having played a "Swing"-tuning (C6th, E13th etc) or any non-pedal steel before.

C6th is a non-pedal steel guitar with pedals attached to it. Hence, one's approach could totally be to first play it without pedals since unlike most "Hawaiian"-tunings it contains as explained several chords in one tuning and there is at least TWO ways to skin that cat:

The tuning has 2 Major chords (open CMaj.6th and FMaj.7/9th.)
Thus it has 2 minor chords as relative minors to above Major chords: (open Am7th resulting from CMaj and Dm9th resulting from FMaj).
I know some will exclaim "Dminor?!?!".
YES, D-minor! Every Major generates a relative minor, and F is no exception. Evidently, there is no D root in the bottom since there is no 6th degree present for F (unless as some, you tune your bottom string up to D (Maurice did and some of his students lime myself do), but most of you DO have a D on top and CMaj is DmDorian anyways generating so much of Dm7/9th that even without a root there is plenty to play 4-note D-minors there... (at LEAST consider it for playing single note runs over chord-changes!)

So, in numbers you have I.Maj rooted at the 7th string and IV.Maj rooted at the 9th string and ii-minor rooted at the 1st string and vi-minor rooted at the 8th string ALL on the SAME fret.
OR
If you move it all up a 5th (7 frets) or swap the I-position of your two Major chords, you have I.Maj rooted at the 9th string and
V.Maj rooted at the 7th string (so, IVMaj two frets below) and iii-minor rooted at the 8th string and vi-minor rooted at the first string ALL on the SAME fret.

THESE are the two system 7, respectively 5 frets apart of each other you MUST understand before wanting to go further!

Jeff Newman as well as Maurice suggested learning single note playing WITHOUT pedals. It's a "stable" platform and the brain acquires constant things much faster. Buddy Emmons seems to have suggested the same.
Evidently some single note players like Hal Rugg made extended and constant use of his changes while soloing in single notes, I wished we still had him around to get his opinion on how to learn.

The only thing missing is a clear COMPLETE Dominant chord.
Jerry Byrd fixed that by adding a low C# (the Major third to his relative minor Am7 from C6th)... which is the origin of the 8th pedal.

Pedals 5 & 6 were common slants used on non-pedal C6th to generate a 3 note dominant sound.

Pedal 7 is probably the smartes "out of this world" pedal that has no "historic" back ground, which among other things, replicates the tuning found 7 frets higher one string set back. The pedal E9th player ought to lay OFF until they understand it's NOT a "C"-pedal Very Happy

. That pedal is also probably the first gateway to full upper structure and triad over bass chords on the basic setup.

Evidently, most of these pedals and combinations create substitutions and also very different chords (like the 6th pedal turns C6th into Cm6th (by dropping the Major 3rd half to minor 3rd.

I urge every one to make good use of all the free video information today and to broaden their search for musical understanding a as for chords LOOK at PIANO tutorials. It's opened me a whole new world. Piano is VERY EASY to "see" what they are doing (specially in the key of C), see the intervals, understand what certain degrees do etc.
IF you wonder why early Jazz steel guitarists had such avanguandistic styles in the 50's, 60's and 70's, it is in part because our heroes didn't learn so much from each others but studied jazz guitarists, sax players etc.

... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________

Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Steve Cattermole · From: California, USA

Hey JD,If the pedals are a mystery to you, check out Herb Steiner's C6 essay, he shows how to play all the jazz chords with the different pedals and knee levers and combo's. Once you learn the chord positions pick a slow"ish" Standard and start chipping away, if the chord chart says F7 play every F7 until you find the one that sounds correct.It's slow at first,but it gets easier every tune. Days of wine and Roses is a good one to show you around the neck. I would watch Jim Cohens 2-5-1 You Tube video ,it's very good and really well done. Here's a few things I have picked up along the way, at the 11th fret with pedals 5&6 and lowered A's you have a G7(you pick the root and so on).If you come off the 5th pedal it's a Maj 7. If you're at the 12th fret with pedals 5&6 and A-Bb kl it's a C half Dim ,or a D7b9#5. My most recent discovery is a F#9 at the 3rd fret with strings 2,3,5, any other grip gives you a 7b9. Also remember the C6 tuning is 3 tunings in one,depending on your root note.7th string root is C6 ,8 string root is Am ,9th string root is FMaj 7, pretty cool. Also for the western swing guys, you have a G6 at fret 12 with the 7th pedal. I would not be where I am without the help of Rick Schmidt, when I get lost he's the first place I go . He has helped me a ton.Sorry for the long winded message, just trying to help. Catt

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Steve Cattermole · From: California, USA

The F#9 I was talking about is fret 3, strings 2,3,5 and pedals 5&6, sorry about that. Also wanted to mention how much I like the C-C# kl, it's just like the E-F kl on E9. with the 5th pedal you have a C6 and Am at the 3rd fret.Try pedals 8&7 at the 3rd fret with 8th string root and there's a C7,9,11 in there.I like the Emmons Basic C6 course, I'm working on the single string pockets now.Last thing, I play with both feet,so my left foot works pedals 4,5,6 and right foot 7,8,9, so my feet never have to travel very far. It's not for everyone, and not a must by any means, but I'm glad I did. Good Luck Catt, sorry for my rambling on,on

Steve Cattermole · From: California, USA

Hey JD, sounds like we're both studying the same stuff, good for us. I can't believe I'm still learning pedal and knee lever combinations after 12 years ,it sure has been fun. Can't wait to hear you play. Have fun Catt

Dale Rottacker · From: Walla Walla Washington, USA

Tom Spaulding · From: Tennessee, USA

Hi Tomas-

If you are looking for basic C6 lessons, the big Paul Franklin Method course (now approaching 450 lessons) can be a bit overwhelming taken all at once. We have broken the Method into many subset courses, and currently enrolled students can access it that way. Lots of details about the new format at the link above.

For folks wanting to focus on getting started on C6, we have since (post-2019) created a jump-starter course with the basic tuning, chordal and melodic info called "C6 Essentials". It is all taught by Paul using the standard Emmons pedal setup.

We have dropped a complimentary copy of C6 Essentials in your Modern Music Masters dashboard, just log in (using your active gmail account) and you can access the materials for the next 12 months.

Another good overview/look at the tuning is this free YouTube video clip from one of Paul's seminars: How To Play The C6th Tuning

Hope that helps!

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