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Topic: Balanced vs. Unbalanced Output Question |
Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 1:22 pm |
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Because the depth of my ignorance of even basic electronics knows no bounds...
If one has an amp/pre-amp - say, non-hypothetically, like a Quilter ToneBlock - and the front panel output is designed for a 1/4 inch balanced cable:
1. If it is feeding the board via a DI with a balanced output, does it actually matter if the cable from the amp to the DI is balanced?
2. If it does matter if the cable to the DI is balanced, in a band (versus recording) environment, is the difference actually enough to be concerned about or is a plain ol' guitar cable really all that's needed? |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 4:09 pm
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It is worth doing IMHO otherwise you are shorting one side of the signal to ground, reducing signal strength and losing noise rejection.
But why add a DI, why not just go from balanced output to board?
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 5:40 pm
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| This would mostly be used on stages with everything going from DIs on stage to boards well away from the stage. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 6:38 pm
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All a DI does is convert a high impedance unbalanced signal to low imbedance balanced. Doesn't the tone block already provide that?
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 16 Jul 2022 9:11 pm
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Topic discussed in the context of the SIG OUT of the TB 202 (which is a balanced 1/4" out) here - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=382680
I would definitely use a 1/4" balanced (TRS) cable, or a TRS-to-XLR adapter if the FOH people want to run an XLR cable. As Jeff correctly states, using a instrument (TS) cable will cause you to lose signal strength and noise rejection. I'm also pretty sure the various direct outs on these Tone Blocks are isolated, so I see no reason to use a DI.
As I stated on that other thread of yours, I routinely use the XLR Direct Out on my TB 201. It sounds fine for clean pedal steel as far as I'm concerned, with or without the speaker plugged in. From the Quilter FAQ, I guess the direct signal taps and pads the speaker output, so the speaker's presence probably does affect the sound. Whether one finds that effect good or bad is a matter of personal taste. But in the original TB 201 manual, when they were touting the capabilities of the amp, it states:
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| Direct Out: Provides a mic-level, isolated signal that may be used instead of placing a microphone in front of the speaker. The signal is equalized to match the response of most cone-type speakers. |
So as I said, it sounds fine to me, with or without speaker plugged in.
I've tried a number of speaker emulators going back a long time, going back to the original H&K Red Box in the late 80s or early 90s, and, more recently, some cabinet impulse response pedals. At least in a live setting, I generally prefer to just skip it, given the option. I guess if I was playing a Les Paul or SG and was going for a Plexi Marshall into a 4x12" cab sound, I might opt for that particular speaker emulation. But not for pedal steel into a clean amp. The sound is eventually coming out of a speaker. Now, for recording direct, that might be a different story, although I have recorded steel straight out of the TB 201 direct into the board, and it sounded fine to me. I tried a couple of different emulators, and they seemed to almost throw a wet blanket on the sound. YMMV. |
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