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Topic: the science of good overdrive for PSG? |
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 18 Jun 2022 11:26 am |
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I'm looking for the right unit, and also wanting to understand how/why it works...
For slightly gritty sounds, I've had moderate success with a sans amp para driver. It naturally works a little better with a tube amp, but still fairly malleable and manageable with solid state, because the eq variables and mid sweep are all adjustable.
The white Spark boost from TC Electronics provides a subtle, usable overdriven signal.
Other 'guitar' drive pedals create too much unpleasant harmonic dissonance, which these two don't seems to create quite so much.
I've heard great things about the Earth Drive.
What makes it different than other drive pedals?
On basic overdrive units, Its those awful, incongruent overtones that are the real deal breaker for me.
So what is going on with frequencies and output that makes such a problem for the hot pickups on the PSG w slightly saturated tones?
What drive units do you recommend?
Last edited by Andrew Frost on 21 Jun 2022 10:44 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 18 Jun 2022 2:23 pm
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| Pedals that guitar players call low gain and transparent are your friends, for what you're describing. I like the earth drive- sometimes one before the vp for a base tone, and one after for more hair you can pedal into. Lower gain pickups are also extremely helpful here. Fairfield Circuitry's Barbershop is also great. However, simultaneous moving notes with overdrive/a lower gain tube amp on any instrument will give you some of the overtones you mentioned. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 20 Jun 2022 5:45 am
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| Quote: |
| Lower gain pickups are also extremely helpful here. |
Yes, Asa. I think this is a big part of it.
Many a thread on this subject. The crazy high output of modern PSG pickups seems excessive in many ways, but maybe the hotter wound pickups worked better with SS amps and thus became the norm. |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2022 3:19 pm
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I’m pretty ignorant about overdrive, but I’ve got a jrockett The Dude II that I like quite a lot, especially on the C6th neck. It is almost the opposite of my Ibanez Tube Screamer, which IMHO sounds like shit for me on pedal steel.
This opinion is worth what you paid for it! 
—Al Evans
_________________
2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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David Moore
From:
Bakersfield, California
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Posted 20 Jun 2022 8:53 pm
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Overdrive is so hard to get right on pedal steel. Earth Drive was the first usable one for me, but I’m now using a Source Audio L.A. Lady. Its great. Almost all the settings are usable. Costs less than Earth Drive too.
Here’s a clip I made using it. https://youtu.be/aYYXz2lSUz0 |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 21 Jun 2022 3:48 am
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I've used a lot of overdrives over the years but I always come back to the original SansAmp. No matter what I'm using the most important thing is to put it after the volume pedal. This is especially important for lower drive situations. I retain dynamics, not just the volume, but also the grittyness changes with the volume. This feels much more natural to me.
The downside is I must have the overdrive's volume control in hand's reach because I WILL need to tweak it depending on how much crunch vs. volume I want. Or maybe I just like to fiddle with things too much. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2022 4:53 am
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| Fred wrote: |
......The downside is I must have the overdrive's volume control in hand's reach because I WILL need to tweak it depending on how much crunch vs. volume I want. Or maybe I just like to fiddle with things too much. |
For this reason, I have a volume pot either clipped to the steel leg or, on my current gigging Williams, built into the guitar, to go between pedalboard and amp. This is to deal with the variations of OD output when altering the volume pedal's input to the device. And sometimes just to deal with the fact that even if I set proper levels on the stomp box at home for full-on volume pedal feed to the devices (as if they were wired pre-volume pedal), onstage reality never matches my best home preparations.
One thing that needs to be considered/discussed when selecting a device is the question of how it is going to be used. Are we looking to get a lap steel sort of sound? A rhythm guitar crunch? A lead guitar singing melodic voice? A pedal steel into a monster stack? A pedal steel into a vintage smaller tube amp? Each of these playing styles might call for different FX solutions. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 21 Jun 2022 7:28 am
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Thanks for the commentary here fellas.
Yes Jon, the type of break-up is a relevant aspect to discuss.
For my purposes it is milder break up, more for a bottleneck type tone, with boosted mids. Not so much a David Gilmore type thing.
Fred, The Sans Amps are good, I've found the 'ParaDriver' to be a little more flexible and useable than the GT2, although the simplicity of design is preferable on the latter.
David, that's a serious study of the Felder/Walsh masterpiece! Great playing!
I think the earth drive might be the ticket. I've left an email message at SMS, seeking some clarity/info, but haven't heard back. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 21 Jun 2022 7:38 am
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| Al, what you're saying makes sense. I have a GFI II p/u on the back neck of an older Ultra. It sounds very nice when playing through a tube amp...The front neck of that guitar is a GFI III, and has a slightly more biting tone, its great, but not quite the same combination and result. I think the II has a lower output. Its a little quieter and slightly darker to my ears, so gets a good gritty sound a little easier. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Jon Jaffe
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 22 Jun 2022 9:48 am
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| Use any overdrive device Before your volume pedal, not after. That way the gain is not influenced by anything other than how hard you pick. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Jun 2022 12:34 pm
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I use the earth drive for just a touch of hair. It is perfect for that plus changing the level of overdrive does not change the output level so it is very easy to dial in on the fly.
I also use an analogman King of Tone for more gnarly sounds. It is amazing. I got on the waiting list a while back and went ahead and bought when my name came up.
The main thing to do is experiment. Buy whatever used on reverb and then resell if you don't like it. Overdrives are like trading cards.
_________________
Bob |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Jun 2022 6:07 am
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| "Natural" amp overdrive always sounded better to me than the fuzzy-type, which is usually created by a diode-pair. I used to use an Argonne tube phono preamp. Turn the preamp up, and the amp down - presto! Smooth F/T sustain for days. Later, I designed and built my own tube preamps (a couple of them) and used them until the EHX Big Muff and Bosstones came along. But when I went to playing pedal steel exclusively, the distortion/overdrive sound lost it's appeal. Still carry a modded Bosstone, but only use it once a night, if that. |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Jun 2022 7:55 am
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The best tone I’ve found for overdrive is a Fender Pro Junior… Tone control at 2 and Volume control 10-12…. mash the volume pedal and have at it. When overdriven slide guitar is required (ie Boot Scootin’ Boogie), I unplug from my steel amp and plug into the Pro Junior. My 2 cents worth!
My Pro Junior is the USA built tweed model with the blue AlNiCo speaker (10”). I’ve also done the Fromel supreme mod, and installed the Fromel standby switch mod. I use Sovtek EL84 output tubes and NOS 5751 preamp tubes (both). This amp is also killer for lead guitar!
I also have a black tolex made in Mexico Pro Junior. When both amps were in stock form, the tweed smoked the tolex amp… much fatter tone. I’ve since done the same mods to the tolex amp and now both amps sound virtually identical. I have a blue AlNiCo to install in it to match the tweed. Now BOTH amps sound way fatter and bigger than stock units. Another 2 cents worth! |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 24 Jun 2022 8:16 am
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Andrew, Pete Thorn pretty much echoes Donny's thoughts. I emailed Pete, and he replied with several helpful tips and suggestions. My own mistake was, I sat down got my Amp dialed in, to a wonderful "Clean" warm tone, dropped the overdrive in....all done.... wrong. After Petes's advice I seldom turn my overdrive completely off....and I'm loving it. That's why I love Robert Randolph, he has it down to a science. While everyone is chasing those ever elusive Hughey Land tidbits, i'm agonizing over Robert's delicious drive sounds. I have now graduated to a "Wet-Dry-Wet" setup and loving it. Here's Pete Thorn touching on the introduction to overdrive. Hope it helps a little. I will never go back to a 100% "Clean" Amp again. Tubes Rule!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ8UMHODKuU |
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Stan Joyce
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2022 3:30 am which overdrive for steel
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| I use an Xotic BB preamp pedal. Works well |
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Michael Hill
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2022 6:26 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
For this reason, I have a volume pot either clipped to the steel leg or, on my current gigging Williams, built into the guitar, to go between pedalboard and amp. ... |
I'm not sure about all the details but in my experience putting 'something' between the guitar output and an overdrive works. I've tried a plain volume pot, a Sarno Freeloader and a few Radial devices that include a 'Drag' control. These all worked pretty well for me. The Radial device was the best in my rig. With that in place, I'm able to use any overdrive pedal and get good results. |
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David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2022 2:51 pm
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Best overdrive pedals to use with SS amps? I know the Black Box would be the best, but anymore recommendations.The overdrives just don't sound that good with SS amps
Thanks |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 28 Jun 2022 5:53 pm
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Overdrive pedals sound better with an amp that is on the edge of breakup. The clean high headroom of the traditional pedal steel amp does not play friendly with distortion or overdrive pedals.I have a bunch of OD pedals and find the one with tone controls are better.
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 7:36 am One that sounds, good with solid state amps
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Blackstone mosfet not intended for amps already on the point of near breakup
Blackstoneappliances.com has a good article on distortion worth reading. |
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David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2022 12:33 pm
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thanks for the replies
Anyone tried the Blackstone pedal for pedal or lap steel into SS amps |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 23 Jul 2022 3:53 pm
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Here is a video explaining the different types of overdrive. It’s really informative and interesting.
https://youtu.be/8wVShbGe4pk
My preference is for hard clipping overdrives (blues breaker types). These are also called “transparent” because they don’t change your tone as much as other types.
The soft clipping (tubescreamers) doesn’t do it for me.
One thing I like for a steel or a lap steel overdrive is a mid control. You’ll want to crank that up to get through the mix. I’m also partial to any type of amp-in-a-box pedal, especially the Marshal plexi flavor. I currently use the Wampler Plextortion. I also had a killer lap steel tome with the Keeley Fuzz Head. Why in the world did I get rid of that one? |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2022 7:33 pm Happened across a well known steel. Player using
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A Blackstone overdrive if you're curious it's at 2:11 into
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gKjzdnSbBWU
The beginning intro is nice too. Jon Graboff is playing it into a, twin reverb. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2022 4:13 am
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👀
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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