The Telecaster of Steels?

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

If a pedal steel were a guitar, which one would be a Telecaster? A Telecaster, is simple, distinctive, unique, and reliable. There's no more there than is needed to do its job, and no less. And you can drive a nail with it and still play it. One friend had his Tele fall off his car roof on a freeway. The case didn't survive, but the guitar played fine at that night's gig.

Just to tell you when I'm coming from -- I love old steels. I play a Fender 400, a ShoBud Pro D10, a ShoBud Pro1 SD10, and an early 70's ZB SD10. I love them all, but none of them's a Tele. The Fender isn't quite up to what I like to play (8 strings, 4 pedals, maybe it's an Esquire), and the others are, uh, finicky but beautiful, perhaps more like an old Gibson.

So, what PSG could be used to drive nails and then play without even worrying about it? Doesn't even have to be old.

-eric

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Which Telecaster ?
Ash body, Alder body, Poplar body ..

which neck ?
V neck
Maple cap with Jumbo's ?
Maple with medium or thin frets?
Rosewood ?

Which PUPS ?
Vintage, Stock, Texas Specials, Noisless, Hot Rails, Duncans ?

Which Bridge ?
6 saddle
3 saddle Steel
3 saddle Brass ?

we got to know these things before we can respond accuratley...

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think it would be a Sho-Bud LDG.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

Tony, I think you "hit the nail on the head" about the versatility and functionality of the Tele. Personally, I like ash bodies, maple necks, brass saddles, baseball bat neck profiles, and I'm really impressed with Jason Lollar's pickups. But even with an alder body, rosewood neck, 6-saddle bridge, and split-coil humbuckers, it still has all the essential qualities of a Telecaster: unique, distinctive, stone-axe reliable, almost a Zen of guitars.

So, backing off from the details to the essential "dharma" of the guitar, is there a steel with that simplicity, reliablity, and associated elegance of function?

-eric

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I think the Sho~Bud Pro 1 fits that description. It's got a nice bite, but can still sound mellow with a softer attack. It's pretty tough, mostly because of its simplistic design - usually 3+4 (or less) - nothing much to go wrong or to break (well, some have pot metal...ha-ha). It usually sports a nice hunk of wood, looks great and carries a strong, proud name. I can't think of anything that comes as close to a tele, in relation to pedal steels.

[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 26 October 2006 at 12:09 PM.]

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I know that - mechanically speaking - the Emmons P/P is a complex beast, but I still think, spiritually at least, it's the Telecaster of steels.

RR

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i agree with roger....emmons pp....basic ability to allow the player to be what he can be!

Nathan Delacretaz · From: Austin, Texas, USA

It doesn't have the long history of the Tele, but as far as being an utterly no-frills, no-nonsense, utility instrument, I'd vote GFI.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

with all due respect, you..WE..cannot call the complex PP the Telecaster of Steels.

The entire purpose of this thread , I believe , is to compare a single Steel down to simplicity and sound..

The PP, although beloved for tone..is NOT beloved for simplicity..

The Tele' is still, after 5 decades a mainstream Instrument in it's simplicity and TONE.

Still in production, still coveted by many..still copied..and probably the number 1 Guitar that folks are trying to copy for tone and technique related to the guitar.

Personally I don't think there is a Steel that screams tone as well as simplicity..but if there was I too think it would be an LDG...although the simplicity part is debatable..

Or one of them thar' S10 Sho-Buds from that late 60's to mid 70's era...

Just for kicks, a friend who started playing Guitar a year or so back was asking me questions about Tele's and Strats today, referring to quality vs prices. He then casually asked how much a good Steel costs....like mine, with two necks..When he learned $4000 to $6000 he asked if I was nuts..

I said YES...of course..

now his $499 Fender doesn't seem so foolish...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 26 October 2006 at 01:05 PM.]

Marc Mercer · From: Colorado, USA

To me, a pedal steel is more comparable to a STRATocaster, with a string bending device.

Telecaster? 6-string Lap steel. No frills.

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Probably something as simple as a Sho-Bud Permanent, or a Pull-Release Marlen. But it would have to have a bigger brand name, so I go with Sho-Bud Permanent with cabinet ends. And Dual Eights. I think the solid finger being Telecaster-ish makes more sense than an all-pull design or the Emmons two part finger.
The Bigsby Spanish version translated to steel would be a Bigsby.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

I think Tony hit the nail, again. Simplicity, and tone.

But Tony, as to "Or one of them thar' S10 Sho-Buds from that late 60's to mid 70's era...", I can't agree. I own two, and among other excellent things they are, simple and reliable they're not. Perhaps it's because they're old (though what does that say about reliability, compared to a Telecaster?), but tuning slips, rods and changers hang up, string pieces jam in the changer, notes that were spot on two songs ago are flat...

If it doesn't exist, what would it look like? I would guess a single neck, 3+4, double-raise single-lower would be the functional equivalent, and handle 95% of what we do?

-eric

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I still say the P/P!

It probably has the most distinctive and fundamental tone of any steel, and is the yardstick against which other steels are judged. That's what it has in common with the Tele - the same applies to Leo's brightest creation.

I said it was more spiritual, didn't I? In any case, this is surely a light-hearted thread, isn't it?

RR

Rob van Duuren · From: The Netherlands

i don't know bout driving nails, but to me ShoBud and Emmons are the Fender and Gibson of pedalsteelguitar. In sound and in touch.
Actually, my LDG also fell from a driving van on the highway once. Case dented(however, it 'repaired' itself miraculously a few months later), but the LDG didn't even need tuning a couple hours later at the gig.
So i'd say a ShoBud LDG qualifies...... Rob.

Lynn Stafford · From: Ridgefield, WA USA

I agree with what Roger said.

The Emmons P/P gets my vote too! I also have a Fender '52 Telecaster Reissiue that I just love for all those reasons mentioned above.

Lynn

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

How about the Bigsby?

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i'm still on roger's lighthearted side!!

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Simplicity you say? Definitely the Sho~Bud Maverick!

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

I hear y'all. But there's one big inherent difference between a 35-year old Tele and a 35-year-old Emmons or LDG. Once's mechanical, the other's not (well, barely). While the steels may have been Tele's in sprit once, can we say they are now? What would a current one be?

(Don't shoot! Wait, I'll put pedals on my Tele... hmmm, that's been tried)

-eric

[This message was edited by Eric Jaeger on 26 October 2006 at 04:22 PM.]

Donald Dunlavey · From: Jonesboro, Georgia, USA

I thinking what Marc said about the Strat with the vibrato if you know how to really use it. Now imagine the 5 sounds of a Strat on STeel with the benefit of 3x5 min. Would be quite different than any steel I've heard.

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Ah yes, the Tele, always liked that axe.

This is one that I picked up earlier this week at Steel Guitar Nashville. Well kinda like a Tele. Actually a Peavey Omniac Jerry Donahue signature model that was made in their USA Custom Shop. It has a single bound ash body, a birdseye maple "V" neck, Seymour Duncans, a custom 5 way switch, Wilkinson DeLuxe tuners, brass bridge, and a 21 fret neck with a 25 1/2" scale. The sunburst finish is beautiful! Comes in a nice HSC.

MSRP is $1599-, If you have the means I highly recommend one.

Great guitar Bobbe, Thanks!

------------------
John Drury
NTSGA #3

[This message was edited by John Drury on 26 October 2006 at 08:18 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

For tone I've always thought the SB IIIs were the "tele" of PSGS. Mine lasted 25 year of solid steady torture. The finish melted off a year after I got it in a rainstorm, and it's getting ready to get the warp out of the apron and put back together.

My Podxt settings for my SB Professional are actually fatter than my tele settings, though my SB has 16k JWs.

With your qualifier of "current". I'd have to put a vote in for the GFI. I found that when I was in Nashville at Bobbe's Store it seemed the most solid. Just like with teles, available with any pickup you want on them. You just gotta get them and put them on.

John. I envy you. They also come in blueburst, and had I not found a blueburst G&L ASAT Tribute that was the guitar meant for me I'd have gotten one. I'd say it's miles above what's on the rack in "the brand name" for the same price.

EJL

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Thanks Eric.

I didn't actually see the Blueburst, but Bobbe says he has one that he kept for himself and is a very choice looking horn.

They make it in a natural wich is also very nice looking.

------------------
John Drury
NTSGA #3

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I've yet to see a pedal steel that wasn't mechanical!

RR

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

My reference point on Teles is an old-style, strings-through-body, 2-strings-to-a-saddle, ferrous-bridge-plate, swamp ash with maple neck version. From that reference point, I go for the Emmons P/P.

Several things strike me. First - tonally they both have extraordinary clarity and chirp on the high-end, at least the good ones I've played or had.

Second - Teles are the most raw and direct transference from your fingers to the amp of any guitar, IMO. Sound-wise, that is also the way the P/Ps I've had struck me, regardless of the mechanics needed to achieve it.

Third, they're far from the easiest instruments to play well - you have to sort of manhandle them a bit and each have their idiosyncrasies. So much so that I'm still looking for just the right P/P for me, playing-wise. I went through tons of Teles before I found a couple that were just right.

Fourth, they both seem to channel the player into doing the thing that they do best.

Fifth - they are both, IMO, pretty much the de-facto standards for what it means to say "electric guitar sound" or "pedal steel sound" for their respective instruments. When I think "pure electric guitar sound", the Tele comes to mind instantly. Similarly for the Emmons P/P for "pure pedal steel sound".

Sixth, they each have such a long history and omnipresence in music, especially country music.

Of course, one could also say many of these things about Sho Bud - but to me, the Sho Bud is a more "woody" sound (which I also love). By "woody", I mean somewhat less strident in the high-end, perhaps more forgiving there. One could similarly argue for Bigsbys, but there just aren't enough out there for me to think of them in the same way as a Tele - it's more comparable to the Bigsby guitar to me.

This is just my opinion - there are lots of other guitars for which the argument could also be made. Tonally, the Franklin I had also would be a strong contender. Direct transference, amazing clarity and high-end presence, and so on. But it played so much easier than any Emmons I have yet played. From my sample of *one*, I think Franklin has achieved something no 6-string guitar maker has yet - a guitar with tone comparable to the best classic designs, but significantly better playability and feel. YMMV, but that's my opinion.

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