E9 2nd String "D" Tuning

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

What are some of the compromises (or non-compromises) folks have tried for the D? Although I tune my 2nd string open to D, the question applies, whether it's an open D or on a lower.
Against a B-pedaled 3rd string A I have a real ugly 4th interval if I want to have a usable open dom7th. Plus the thirds w/ string 1 and/or 5 get squirrely. I've gotten by with a very sharp D up until now but I'm obsessing over the best compromises on a slow Sunday.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Consider the positions in the chord scale, and what you need to get a scale tone from the 2nd string in those positions. Here it is in E:



fret  2nd_string


 0     D#          


 2     D 


 3     D#          


 5     D#


 7     D


 8     D#


10     D#

I played with the 2nd string tuned to D for 20 years. I switched after doing this analysis, and I'm glad I did. It makes it easier to play most positions.

If you lower your G#'s to G, you might use frets 4 and 9 which would require the D instead of D#. That skews the equation, especially if you don't use your F lever very much (frets 3, 8 and 10).

As for fine tuning, I match the D to the A. I tune the D# 10 cents flat of the B.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Yeah, Bobby---I've noted your studies on the D vs. D# 2nd string. But I've opted to keep the D. It's the intonation thing that's bugging me. I think my #1 priority is a nice third with the 1st string F#. Today I added an an A pedal compensator on the 1st string to match the one I've got on the 7th and this has really complicated matters re: the relationship between strings 1 & 2 and the different intonations w/ A pedal down or not. In fact, I think the compensator on 1 has to go.
This whole area of thinking (altered ET with the various intervalic compromises in different inversions & scale positions) is just not one of my mental strengths and it's tying my brain up in knots.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Do you have the same problems tuning your other D string?
Meantone tuning works for me, to get all those intervals sounding good.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I tune like this:



1 F# 0


2 D# -5   D +5


3 G# -5   A +5


4 E +5   F# -5  


5 B +5   C# -5

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 29 October 2006 at 12:39 PM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm trying to analyze this and what I'm finding is that it's about how I use this. The low D on my modified U-12 is on the 8th string lower. I tend to use this primarily as a Dom7 and I can get away with the sharp D for the most part. The high D gets used a lot more in ringing harmonized thirds. This actually makes the thirds more critical, for me, than the fourth. I think. I've got to keep working this out. It's interesting to me to discover that the answer may well not be a universal one but, rather, "how do you use it". Even if that means that there are objective limitations to the solution.
I have to admit that even though I am familiar with the term "mean temperment", I just don't know what it means.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Jon, try this on for size:

Wikipedia Meantone Temperament

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

so if you detune the D# and bring it to the natural D..

may I ask?

the conventional tuning gives us a Raise to E, and a double lower, D and C#. 4 notes on the 2nd string...4 very NICE notes...

those that are using the natural D on the 2nd string..

how are you getting the E..and the D# and the C# ?

curious minds want to know...

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Tony--I raise the D to D# on RKR#1 (and also on the F lever), I lower the D to C# on RKL (the E lower lever) (and also on LKR#2, my 8th string E>D lever which is essentially the B6 P6 on my E9/B6. And for the first time, on this new guitar (Fess), something I never had on the Carter but I think I'll put it on soon, I raise the D to E with the 1st string F#>G# raise and the 6th string G#>F# lower on LKR#1. This all works really well. That move with string 1 & 2 together is a new one for me. I can raise them and bring them down with string 2 coming to D# or D, depending on my use of the RKR.
The guitar is 8 + 8. The coped isn't flawless but I've developed it over the last 7 years and it works for me pretty ok.

Anyway, there's the answer to your q, I think.

Hey Twayn--thanks for the link.

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