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Topic: A Forged JB Fry-Pan Certificate w/ Guitar on Reverb?! Huh?! |
Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2022 11:29 am |
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Hey, guys...
I'm no forensic document/handwriting analyst, but it sure looks to me like the certificate that comes with this JB Fry-Pan for sale on Reverb is a fake:
https://reverb.com/item/55232645-sho-bud-j-b-fry-pan-jerry-byrd-lap-steel-1985-w-case-coa-a109
Compare w/ Robert Keyser and Bill Davis' certificates that came with their guitars--a long scale # A-87 and a short scale # B-54 (the signatures, the typing, etc.):
Note that Keyser's guitar was also engraved by Jerry (something he offered to do if purchasers of the original limited run sent him their back plates):
Now, factor in something Jack Byrd said here on the Forum back in Dec. of 2002:
"Well I guess the ball is in my court to straighten out some more mis-information...[t]his will set things straight as to the correct and OFFICIAL count of the number of JB frypans sold within the limited edition. ... I have received from Jerry the official list of the limited edition Sho-Bud JB frypans sold and those he certified as authentic within the limited edition. ... In the A series (long scale) the highest number is A099. In the B series (short scale) the highest number is B084.
This long scale is numbered A-109.
Thoughts? And is Jack Byrd still alive? I know this issue has been beat to death, but not everyone knows the story. I just sold the Keyser Fry-Pan for a friend to a guy who almost bought the one on Reverb, but got a bad feeling about it and walked away. He had absolutely no idea about the J.B. Fry-Pan saga.
So, if you have an informed opinion, please weigh in.
As of right now, my feeling is that the certificate is a fake and the signatures (certainly Jerry's) are forged. And who the heck is Ralph E. Barnes?! But whether or not the guitar is one of the original 150 long scale models, I just dunno.
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar.
Last edited by Mark Helm on 4 Jul 2022 6:43 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2022 11:34 am
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| Ralph is a notary public. You can see the stamp under his name. The other two are not notorized for what it’s worth. |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2022 11:43 am Respectfully...
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Respectfully, Bill, the notary stamp make this seem all the more fishy, as if to lend the document an air of legitimacy.
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 5 Jul 2022 8:06 am Just a guess…
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My guess is that this is “semi” legitimate. But the certificate was issued after the original batch of certificates were created. Possibly by special request, hence the notarization. Very hard to confirm, but might be possible. The Jackson signature sure doesn’t look right though. A supporting letter from a family member or estate would be nice.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 5 Jul 2022 8:56 am
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As far as the value, the playability, and the collectibility, does is really matter if the Certificate (and the guitar) are from the first batch, authorized by Jerry, or from the next batch which was not authorized by Jerry? I mean, the guitars are the same, right? Made in the same factory. It seems to me that the Certificate just confuses things and is meaningless today due to the authorized/unauthorized issue.
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 5 Jul 2022 9:08 am
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I imagine the payback for forging anything related to steel guitars is so slim compared to the standard guitar world that it's hard to believe it'd be worth a criminal's time.
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2022 10:41 am It matters because
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| As far as the value, the playability, and the collectibility, does is really matter if the Certificate (and the guitar) are from the first batch, authorized by Jerry, or from the next batch which was not authorized by Jerry? |
Hey, Doug! Thanks for weighing in, man. Your perspective is 100% valid.
For the record, it matters to me mostly because A) According to Jerry's brother Jack, Jerry didn't get paid his royalties on those guitars; and B) I think forging signatures and certificates is wrong.
I'm also just kinda curious...
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar.
Last edited by Mark Helm on 5 Jul 2022 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Helm
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2022 10:52 am Yeah, but....
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
| I imagine the payback for forging anything related to steel guitars is so slim compared to the standard guitar world that it's hard to believe it'd be worth a criminal's time. |
Hey, Andy! Good point, but, apparently, someone smelled $$ at some point and made a whole lot more of these guitars than was originally intended by Jerry.
So--according to Jerry's brother Jack--somebody got a payday they weren't supposed to get according to Jerry's original agreement with Sho-Bud. And, as I pointed out earlier, Jerry got cheated out of royalties. I'm not going to point fingers (anyone who's interested can find Jack Byrd's posts to the Forum explaining everything). Like I said, I'm just curious to hear what folks think and I appreciate the responses.
It also occurs to me (again, to Doug's point), I'd be pissed if I paid $1,700 + tax for a JB Frypan and discovered Jerry's signature on the certificate was a forgery.
_________________
Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar. |
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Charles Stange
From:
San Francisco, California
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Posted 6 Jul 2022 6:23 am
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I think you should be able to research the Notary info from the embossment (if you can read it). I believe Notary Public Commission Numbers are searchable.
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Charles 'Skip' Stange |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2022 1:58 pm Bogus?
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Hello Mark!
Just happened across your post here. BEEG red flag is those month spell-outs in the upper right of ‘legit’ ones.. and the clarity of type. Doc’s don’t use numerical date stamps, IMHO, as a matter of authenticity.
Hope a solution is found ..as “Trust, but Verify” are ways of wisdom.
Jon Z. |
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