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Topic: PP question, why the heck is this happening? |
Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 12:49 pm |
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Oh wise forum friends, I do so love the sound and feel of my 1969 push pull, but lately it has been doing the strangest thing. The 5th and 6th strings, just don't seem to stay put anymore tuning wise, I have to adjust them at the changer after almost every song. I have lubricated the rods at contact points, lubricated the rollers, put fresh strings on, checked the tuners at the keyhead for stability, but no dice. I have noticed that the allen keys on the changer on the 5th and 6th strings are very loose, i.e. they turn with very little resistance, in comparison to the others, which seem to be more "set" in place. Tommy Cass, who set the steel up for me in March (and did a beautiful job) said I need to tighten the return springs, but I just don't know how to do that.
Why would the allen keys be so loose on those strings, and could that be the problem, i.e. they back out after a song or two, making the string flat as a pancake?
The string will be perfectly in tune with the A pedal engaged, but when the string is at rest, it's flat city. Sure would appreciate some help here!
Thanks for reading my post.
Gerald |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 12:55 pm
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Hi Gerald,
I'm no push-pull guru, but have you cheched the set-screws which tighten the bell cranks to the cross-rods? Those set-screws can come loose and will cause the tuning to drift.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 1:11 pm
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| set screws in the bell cranks and collars really need to be torqued down...on the bell cranks i've even taken the set screw out and drilled a slight dimple in the cross rod for the set screw to grab....and locktite on the allen screws in the changer end. |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 1:20 pm
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Gerald, get yourself a little bottle of blue Loctite, not the red one, and dab a little bit on the tuning screws with the screws backed out a bit, and screw em back in. Voila problem solved!
To tighten return springs, get a pair of long nosed pliers to grab the rod holding the return spring, hold that in your left hand, in your right hand have a 3/32 Allen key to loosen the set screw on the collar to slide it down the rod a bit. I hope you have strong hands, because stretching the return springs with long nose pliers is really hard to do while feeling around for the set screw. |
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Carlos Polidura
From:
Puerto Rico
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Posted 23 Oct 2006 2:26 pm
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Hi Gerald. I also have a P/P and don't mind helping you. Let me know.
Thanks,
Carlos |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 10:41 am
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Thanks to everybody for their replies. As far as LocTite goes, would you believe the giant Lowe's near my home had only the "red" kind. As far as the "blue" one goes, it turns out there's an entire product line of LocTite that comes in small blue bottles, the ten dollar name seems to be cyanoacrylate adhesives, hence the blue label. Any idea which one of these is the best to use:
http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/loctite_us/index.cfm?&pageid=19&layout=3
Thanks very much for your help.
Gerald |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 11:11 am
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Gerald....
Shoot me an email if you don't get it sorted out. I have had similar problems... loctite and some spring adjustment will probably do the trick.... otherwise I can look at it with you.
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 11:14 am
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| Blue Loctite 242 is what you want. |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 11:56 am
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You guys are amazing, I will look for 242, thanks very much for that, and for all the offers to help.
Gerald |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 12:13 pm
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Gerald, you can probaby find the Loctite at an auto parts store.
BTW, you might still need to add tension to the lowering springs, if you are lowering the 5th and 6th, and they do not return to the correct pitch, the springs need more tension. Good luck. |
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Andrew Buhler
From:
Maryland, USA
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 25 Oct 2006 9:22 pm
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| My p/p also has the lock springs instead of locktight. The screws turn pretty easy, but the tuning stays pretty stable....so long as those pesky set-screws are secure. I plan on getting fresh set-screws for my p/p as I've heard that new set-screws will bite into the cross-shafts and stay put. My p/p is funny, and seems sort of alive in the way it responds and behaves: sometimes I sit down at it and it sounds in tune right away; sometimes it sounds totally wacked-out with its tuning, but it settles itself into being in tune as it's being played. This seems funny because it doesn't leave the house, it's always set-up in the same place......I take my Sho-Bud out as it's easier to deal with and not nearly as quirky as the p/p, but the p/p's tone and sustain are truely beautiful. [This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 25 October 2006 at 10:25 PM.] |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 11:30 am
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| The story of my life has been that I rarely can find what I am looking for locally it seems... could not find the Loc-tite threadlocker, but did find something that called itself a threadlocker and even had a "blue" designation on the label. To my delight, it seems to have done the trick, my push pull is stable once again. What great sounding instruments they are, still don't understand why no one other than Pro mat makes one. Next year I will buy another... |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 11:55 am
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Is not the Jackson and the Zum hybrid like a push-pull type of design? My impression is that they are similar, but I'm not totally clear on this and I apologize if I'm misleading....but if they are it seems a little ironic that the all-pull design--that is some ways is an evolution from the p/p in that it is easier to deal with, to tune, to change, etc.,--is now evolving back to something closer to the push-pull.
Really the only misgiving I have about my p/p is that I am intimidated and lost when it comes to attempting to change the copedant....on my all-pull it's easy to understand, but looking at the p/p is mind-numbing......of course it's my fault for not taking the time or the plunge for it. I bet once you've got it it's fun!....maybe? |
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