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Topic: Minor 2-5-1 progression ,and harmonic minor scale for E9th |
Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 12:30 pm |
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I would like to hear your thoughts and approaches to the chord changes Am7(b5)to D7(b9)to Gm,I only have a E9th.
I am curious about how others think of their scale pockets for these types of changes especially on the E9th .I tend to learn the scale in its 5 or 6 ways across the neck,then diagonal patterns along the neck,then out line the chord tones where they fall with these patterns.i am learning old jazz standards on my E9th.
thankyou.
sam. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 1:39 pm
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The whole scale, all 3 chords, and some nice bending melody notes, are at fret 1.
Also fret 6 is nice, especially if you can lower the G to F# ("split" on strings 5 and 10), so you don't have to go to fret 5 for the D7.
I like fret 10, where the KL that lowers the 7th string a half step gives you the -5 in the half dim chord.
That half step lower on 7 makes fret 4 a nice spot for those notes too, and if you don't have that pull you can raise the 8th string instead. You can bend down to the D from E flat there, or bend up from C if you have a whole step raise on a "zero pedal". |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 2:36 pm
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I'm with Earnest, and I don't even drop my 7th. 1st fret works for all three of those, although I find the BC pedal my least favorite of the three common minor positions, although I use it often in transition. I'd probably, depending on my mood, start on 1 with the D# lever, hit 3BC before the D7, release C and engage the D# lever early in the D, move up to 5AB (hit the 1st string raise for the 7 and the D# lever or the 2nd string for the b5), and to 6A for the G minor.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ian Kerr
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 3:51 pm
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Here's an example using what has been mentioned on fret 1 or 13.I'm really using the F7 position and common tones.I'm picking strings 5,6 and 9.[C,A,Eb]That could be Am7b5. Pick again.[C,A,Eb]. That could be D7b9[C,A,Eb].Then resolve to Gm [Bb] with pedals A , B AND the lever to lower the 9th string.So [C,A,Eb] changes to [D,Bb,D].
If you have the G# to F# lower on string 6,you could try much the same thing on fret 8, A& B down, lever to lower 6 a whole tone in, pick 4,5,6 and resolve to fret 6 with the A pedal. |
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Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 5:51 pm harmonic minor
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hey guys thanks ,got any videos or audio bits .
sam. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 7:24 pm
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I'll try to get one shot before my gig this Saturday.
Have you got a song in mind with that cadence? That way I can try to phrase it the way you're thinking of
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 4 Apr 2012 11:50 pm minor 2-5-1in E9th
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hey Lane,
anything minor 2=5=1,as long as it half diminished to dom 7(b9) .to a minor tonic.It wont matter the feel or the key,any inspiration would be great. I use the 7th mode of the harmonic minor over full dimished chords as well.
thanks ,
sam.. |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 26 May 2022 4:59 pm
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This might be useful for some. Thanks Doug and Lane. It would be a problem without splits and a vertical.
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Steve Mueller
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 May 2022 7:23 pm
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I'll try these out tomorrow!
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 27 May 2022 9:15 am
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8,7,6,5 with B & C pedals and your Es lowered will give you the m7b5 - the note on the 8th string is the root so as to identify which m7b5 it is (rather than it being a minor chord with a 6th in the bass). 8th = Root, 7th = b3, 6th = b5, 5 = b7. Voila - a half-diminished.
I use my pedal 4, too, that lowers 6 and 9 a half-step. The lowered 9th string is the root.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 27 May 2022 5:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| B & C pedals and your Es lowered will give you the m7b5 - the note on the 8th string is the root |
Heya Sam
What Roger described is my 'go to'. I find it intuitive to use this voicing because the root note sits one fret higher than the open root positions. Bm7b5 is fret 8, Am7b5 is at fret 6 etc.
This way, you can move everything up 3 frets to get the corresponding altered V7 chord ( this trick works with any m7b5 voicing ) but down three frets works really well too, as it is the basic dom7 w/ B pedal and Es lowered. Lots of lines in here by just moving between these positions.... |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 28 May 2022 1:51 am
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Exactly, Andrew! The three-fret relationship.
It's good to grasp the formula. An Am7b5 sounds exactly like a C minor with a 6th on the bass note. The root, as always, is key.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 May 2022 8:42 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
Exactly, Andrew! The three-fret relationship.
It's good to grasp the formula. An Am7b5 sounds exactly like a C minor with a 6th on the bass note. The root, as always, is key. |
My 4-5-1 mentality wraps around 4m-5-1m much more easily than 2m7b5-5-1m. I let the bass player handle the 2.
For single note playing, I think of ii7b5-V7b9 as the V7, alternating the sus4 and b9 in and out. I can make a joyful mess of things with that.
Pockets for harmonic minor scale notes are in two fret areas around the 1 and 5 Major chord positions, and 3-fret areas around the 4 Major chord. The “bad” notes would be the major 3rd (B) and b9 (Ab) of the key note (G).
Here is a no-pedals visual representation of what I’m failing to explain verbally.
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