Identifying Speakers on Fender SF Twin 135W

Eric Duarte · From: Santa Cruz, California

Hi Folks,

I recently traded a used Deluxe Reverb Reissue for this amp. I tested it while the guy I traded with tested my Deluxe. I was hoping he wouldn’t notice how much better this amp sounded in an A/B test. He did not have a lot of info on the amp and claimed he was told the speakers were original from the guy he got it from years ago.

I like it so far, but am considering putting in new speakers. The amp was just serviced by a local amp tech in the Bay Area in February. So I’m thinking of freshening it up further with new speakers.

The current speakers (pictured) do not have many identifying marks on them. Does anyone know what they are?

They do say “1238FR” and “67-91250241” and “12843”. Google searches turn up a peavey speaker made by eminence or a goldwood sound speaker. Not totally convinced that’s what’s in here but the pictures look similar. Either way they seem to be inexpensive speakers.

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-Eric

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

67 prefix definitely Eminence. That appears to be one of their basic guitar speakers.

I found this on one of the other forums concerning the 1238FR designation, however.

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/speaker-specs-carvin-100w-british-series.917110/

Eric Duarte · From: Santa Cruz, California

Thank you, Jerry. Appreciate you researching and sharing that thread. They're not bad speakers, but maybe not the best choice for steel? Any recommendations on what might be fun to try?

I see some Paul Franklin and Travis Toy speakers on the eminence site that are tempting, but dang they're pricey and I would need to buy 2. Wondering what would be a good $100-$150 /speaker upgrade option.
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-Eric

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Well yeah, the JBL K120s or the alnico Altec-Lansings, but I forget if it's the 417 or 418, or perhaps Electrovoice EVM 12L, I think it is. I believe some of these were used in the Fender Twins at some time. All heavy and all rare and relatively expensive and probably not within the budget you posted.

I'm old school and I'm using Peavey Black Widow 80s era 1203 and 1201 12 in. speakers. That's just what I like.

I'm not knowledgeable about or have any recommendations about any of of the other new neo speakers except for the Weber neomags...very JBL ish, but there again, pricey.

Maybe other members will have some suggestions more in line with your budget.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Those look to be pretty decent speakers, and any "upgrade" will likely set you back $175-$250 each. Winking

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

You did great on that trade, IMO. I admit I'm not a particular fan of most of the PC board Fender reissues. Not bad amps, but I'd rather have an old silverface Twin Reverb, especially for pedal steel.

The speakers are definitely not original. I wouldn't let that bother me. 67-91250241 denotes Eminence speakers from the 25th week of 1991. 12843 denotes a 12" 8 Ohm speaker with (I believe) a 43 oz magnet. I think they should be plenty stout for pedal steel, probably more or less comparable to a Jensen C12N or perhaps a higher-power rated Celestion. The C12N is what I have as original equipment in my '66 blackface Twin Reverb and love. I have used many Eminence speakers similar to this - both 'American-style' and 'British-style' - in old Fender amps, and they sound fine to me.

I guess if I'm cork-sniffing, I could find speakers I prefer. But IMO, if the speakers sound good in the amp, they are good. It is not that unusual to put in a "newer, better" speaker and have it not sound as good.

I also personally love JBLs and Altecs, but a pair of them in a Twin Reverb is heavy as hell. Been there, done that. Have two hernia surgeries to prove it. For the most part, I put my JBLs and the one Altec 418 I own in separate cabs. The exception is my old silverface Deluxe Reverb, which has a JBL D120F. Sounds great, but the amp is now quite a lot heavier. If you went for JBLs, I'd go with K120 for the better power handling. But you will likely hate the weight. And they are not cheap.

I have a separate cab with a Paul Franklin 15" speaker in it - it's a real good speaker. They are heavy (specs say 12" is 21.5 pounds each, with a 109 oz magnet) and the new price I'm seeing is $259 and shipping. The Travis Toy speakers have a neodymium magnet, the 12" weighs in nice and light at a little over 7 pounds, and priced similarly around $235. I'm sure they are very good speakers. But you're in the $500 range to replace two of them. I personally would be concerned about how much incremental marginal utility I would get putting a pair of 300-350 watt speakers in a 100 watt Twin Reverb.

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

I have one of these monsters and it had JBL 120s. One was blown so I got a pair of Eminence, possibly the same ones you have. It's not my favorite tone. Probably best to go with a different baffle and a single 15 TT speaker. If you stick with 12s, Tony Prior likes the Texas Heat Eminence in his Fenders. They are more reasonable and lighter. I saved my JBLs for another project.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

I have been well pleased with the Warehouse Speakers 'C-12S/C' (C series features the paper cone). I mounted them in two separate amps (Nashville 112 and Marsh 'Melloverb Jr.) with very positive results. The power handling is rated at 75 watts, so two should be adequate for your Twin. Direct price is $119.95 each.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I bought a new silver faced Twin Reverb in 1967
I ordered it from Fender with the JBL speakers.
It definitely is a keeper! Very Happy

Erv

Eric Duarte · From: Santa Cruz, California

Thanks everyone. I'll stick with these speakers for a while and maybe change the speakers down the line.

I dig the amp so far. Just got a replacement footswitch so now I can turn on the vibrato. I think the Vibrato/Tremolo is not functioning properly. Both speed and intensity don't change past 3 on the knob. The reverb may not change much past 3 also. On the Deluxe Reverb Reissue it would get out of control at 10, so I expected this amp to have an intense reverb effect. No worries though. I have a Strymon FLINT I can use.
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-Eric

Kevin Mincke · From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA

If you decide to put a couple new 12" speakers in these are real nice and will reduce the weight significantly.. I have a 76' 135W and have had it since about 77. I pulled the two Fender speakers out and put a 15" gray basket in shortly after I bought it. The Eminence probably sound pretty good though.

https://eminence.com/collections/legend-guitar-series/products/legend_em12n

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

From your description there is definitely something wrong with both the Vibrato and the Reverb. Reverb should really take off at 3 and above. There are tubes in both circuits so you might want to swap in some known working tubes into those positions. If not tubes and/or a bad reverb pan, then it is a circuit failure and could be anything from a broken wire to a bad part. A decent tech should be able to isolate both of those failures pretty easy.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso

Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100

Johnie Helms · From: Oklahoma, USA

Hey Eric,

Yes Those are currently Eminence speakers in your Twin Reverb..

JH

Eric Duarte · From: Santa Cruz, California

Appreciate the responses. I’m going to give the amp repair folks a call about the reverb and vibrato. Wouldn’t hurt to get an estimate and I really like this amp. For anyone interested, here’s the receipt from the last eat service and tune up from February done by the previous owner.
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-Eric

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

If you do replace them and buy used speakers be very careful about power handling. It's the most misunderstood - and costly - variable when it comes to speakers:

1. Make sure you gt the actual RMS power handling, and not "music power" or "audio handling"or some other wording. KJBL made this kind of mistake with their speakers, and I've sent more JBLS out for recones than any other brand even though they aren't as common.

Example: A D 130 was advertised as handling 100 watts, but the original design engineer has been on technical forums for years stating that the power handling was actually 60 watts RMS! And this gets complicated by:

2. A 30-40 year old speaker will have lost roughly 1/3 of its power handling - so 1980's D130's (also D140's) with original cones only handle around FORTY watts, making them marginal in 50-watt amps! Plus:

3. Any use of distortion requires 150-200% of the stated power handling. So use of 100-watt amps at fairly high volume with both steel and 6-string (or steels used with the same effects) and "overdrive" (which are low-gain distortion gadgets), distortion and/or fuzz pedals and have a single speaker need at LEAST 150 watts - more likely 200 to 300 watts - of power handling.

Power handling in watts-RMS is a measurement using a sine wave, but take that wave and add squared-off and/or jagged sections and that will result in more heat And that's often where problems develop.

With volume limits in clubs nowadays it's less likely that a typical amp will be run at high power (a Twin at "5" on the volume knob is often only pumping out 15-20 watts(the controls don't indicate a percentage of power OR volume) - but if you play unmiked at outdoor festivals or in large venues at least be aware of what your speakers can handle.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Eric Duarte · From: Santa Cruz, California

Jim that is enlightening. Had no idea. Thanks for the insight. I’m going to stick with the original speakers for a few months because I don’t feel like spending a bunch of money replacing them now.

This is going to sound weird, but my twin is not as loud as I expected. Not complaining but I wonder if something is wrong with it.

I have the master on 5 and channel 1 on 6. It’s like my 65 deluxe reverb reissue on 4. I’m not brave enough to go higher yet but it’s quieter than I expected.

I am going to call them amp tech soon and see about them checking out the reverb and vibrato too.
_________________
-Eric

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