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Topic: Who gets credit for the invention of the PSG |
Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 1:43 pm
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Who is credited for the invention of the PSG? A friend says she read that it was Noel Boggs. I never heard that. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Edward Dixon
From: Crestview Florida
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 1:57 pm
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Looks like a few people tried to make one but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar .....
The most successful pedal system from the various contenders was designed about 1948 by Paul Bigsby, a motorcycle shop foreman and racer who also invented the commercially successful Spanish guitar vibrato tailpiece.[20] Bigsby put pedals on a rack between the two front legs of the steel guitar. The pedals operated a mechanical linkage to apply tension to raise the pitch of the strings.[21]
Bigsby built guitars incorporating his design for the foremost steel players of the day, including Speedy West, Noel Boggs, and Bud Isaacs, but Bigsby was a one-man operation working out of his garage at age 56, and not capable of keeping up with demand.[19] One of Bigsby's first guitars was used on "Candy Kisses" in 1949 by Eddie Kirk.[22] The second model Bigsby made went to Speedy West, who used it extensively _________________ "Faith don't need no second opinion." |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 2:36 pm
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I'm pretty sure it was the Harlin Brothers. Gibson then tried to steal their patented design. The Harlins sued them and won. _________________ -πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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George Biner
From: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 3:12 pm
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I don't think you can ever get to crediting one person -- there are a lot of elements that had to be invented to create the modern whole instrument -- changer design, triad strings, chromatic strings, pedals, front pedal bar, levers -- all created by different people. And Bud Isaacs didn't invent anything, but he was the one to realize that you could change the string tuning in the middle of a song, so he will need to get some credit. _________________ Guacamole Mafia - acoustic harmony duo
Electrical engineer / amp tech in West Los Angeles -- I fix Peaveys
"Now there is a snappy sounding instrument. That f****r really sings.Β" - Jerry Garcia |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 3:14 pm
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What b0b said! Jay Harlin won his action against Gibson a decade before Bigsby built his first steel guitar. It's significant that he successfully went up against Gibson, "the elephant in the room" at that time, and won. (That's sorta like David whupping Goliath.) Jay designed his guitar in the late 1930s, and the only successful "tone changing" design before that was the Hawaiian Harmolin. That one really doesn't qualify as a pedal guitar because it was an acoustic lap-steel guitar...with knee levers!
By the way, Paul Bigsby did build a guitar for Noel Boggs, but that was a multi-neck console, not a pedal guitar.
That Wikipedia article may be well-intentioned, but it's basically incorrect. |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 3:32 pm
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I always thought it was Harlin but never quite sure.
Donny, that article made me roll my eyes π and chuckle π a little. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Apr 2022 5:00 pm
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Yes, that wikipedia article is replete with problems. And they can't even spell Harlin correct (Harlan). Misspelling the name of the actual inventor of the pedal steel is a pretty serious flaw for an 'encyclopedia' article about the history of the pedal steel, IMO.
That wikipedia article essentially credits the solenoid-controlled "Electradaire" as the first (not commercially developed) pedal steel in 1939, referencing this newsletter by Bobbe Seymour - https://pedalsteelmusic.com/?p=733.
In that newsletter, Bobbe dates the Harlin Multikord to 1945, when in fact was developed in the mid-30s, and certainly prior to Gibson's 1939 patent for the same basic design, and introduction in 1940. E.g., see this book excerpt - https://books.google.com/books?id=WlDSDopg3HoC&pg=PA143#v=onepage&q&f=false.
The wikipedia article also doesn't mention the Harlin Brothers' lawsuit against Gibson at all. I don't doubt the existence of the Electradaire, but it did not precede the Multikord, and is pretty much irrelevant to any discussion of "Who invented the pedal steel?" since it was apparently never developed commercially in any way.
IMO, this is one of the problems with the encyclopedia format, and wikipedia in particular - the absolute reliance on references, and the impermissibility of original research. This information needs to be corrected, but then one is likely to have to do battle with the wikipedia moderators. I did this kind of academic battling in my career, and I'd just rather play my guitar at this point. But there are a bunch of issues just in that little section. |
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Bill Ferguson
From: Milton, FL USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 7:50 am
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I just was having a conversation about this recently with Hartley Peavey.
He has documentation that it was Paul Bigsby with the help of Speedy West.
I seem to remember Speedy telling me this also once in St Louis. _________________ AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 7:55 am
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I've been (slowly) writing a book about pedal steel copedents. Part of the chapter about early pedal steel is relevant to this discussion. If anything in the paragraphs below is inaccurate, please let me know.
Quote: |
Outside of the western swing market, bandleader Alvino Rey was the most popular steel guitarist of the 1930's. His Modern Guitar Method book listed 12 different tunings for 8-string steel guitar. It didn't mention pedals, but behind the scenes Rey was working with the Gibson company to develop one of the first pedal steels. The resulting "Electraharp" was added to Gibson's catalog as their most expensive instrument in 1940. It was built into a large wooden cabinet, like a console organ.
The Electraharp was envisioned as a way to change swing chord voicings within the structure of a song. The changer mechanism was easily programmable under a cover on the top of the guitar. There is virtually no documentation of how players, even Alvino Rey himself, actually tuned this early instrument. Production of the guitars stopped during the war.
Around the same time (late 1930s), the Harlin Brothers designed a very similar pedal steel, the Harlin Multi-Kord. While the guitar was inferior in construction to the Electraharp, the changer mechanism was almost identical. Jay Harlin's patent application (#2458263) was finally approved in 1947. The Harlins sued, and Gibson was forced to stop production of their original Electraharp. Only 43 were ultimately made.
Alvino Rey was the only major recording artist to feature the original Gibson Electraharp. To my knowledge, no hit records were ever made with the Harlin Multi-Kord. Following the patent suit, Gibson redesigned their changer and produced a smaller, more portable Electraharp. |
_________________ -πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 8:01 am
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Quote: |
I just was having a conversation about this recently with Hartley Peavey. He has documentation that it was Paul Bigsby with the help of Speedy West. |
I guess the question is "When?". Are you saying that PA developed a pedal steel in the 1930s? Because both Harlin and Gibson had viable pedal steels by 1939.
b0b - that timeline sounds right to me, from everything I've read. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Charles Kurck
From: Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 11:35 am The First Pedal Steels
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_________________ "Life is better if we're saved, and death is too." |
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Peter Huggins
From: Van Nuys, California, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 12:03 pm
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The Epiphone Varichord did not have pedals. Rather, it had a unique system of levers on the top above the strings that when moved would raise or lower the pitch of the individual string it was attached to. Not sure how many were built but the number has to be low. They came out about 1939 or 1940 and I donβt think they made any after the war. My late friend Alan Foust had one and we think it may have been the same one pictured in Gruhnβs book Electric Guitars And Basses. It was auctioned off along with all of Alanβs other guitars after he passed away. I have no idea where it ended up. _________________ A big THANKS to all my friends, here and everywhere ! |
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Michael Lee Allen
From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 12:11 pm
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Quoting from Julius Bellson's "The Gibson Story" self-published in 1973...
"About this time, John Moore, a machinist and amateur player in Winsted, Connecticut, developed an idea for lowering or raising the pitch of a string or combination of strings by foot pedals that operated an ingenious mechanism."
"For the first time, more complete harmony in all keys and positions was made possible for this popular style of music. John Moore joined the Gibson Staff and, together with our engineers, developed the Gibson Electraharp."
"During World War II, John remained as Mechanical Engineer until 1944, when he joined the Navy."
NO mention of Alvino Rey. NYC guitarist Jimmy Smith is pictured at one of the earliest Electraharps. At the time he was a well-known leader and session player in NYC.
Bellson worked for many years and in many positions at Gibson. What this tells ME is that Rey exaggerated his importance and was only an endorser after the fact. Moore had a fully working model when he came to Gibson. The Gibson Staff did a few refinements and designed the cabinetry. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 1:39 pm
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Alvino Rey probably worked with Gibson in the marketing of the instrument. He may have been consulted for design ideas, but he was a musician, not an engineer. I should rewrite that line in the book.
_________________ -πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 2:25 pm
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I believe we should distinguish between the modern instrument, where audible movement of the pedals is part of the style, and early quick-change mechanisms which were designed to provide more than one tuning per neck but were a hidden asset, not a feature.
Who was the first to change pitches audibly? Some say Bud Isaacs, but great ideas have a habit of occurring to more than one inventor at around the same time so who can say for certain? _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ian Worley
From: Sacramento, CA
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 2:35 pm
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At the bottom of page 141 of Lorene Ruymar's book (just before the page linked by Dave M above) she states "The story goes that they [Gibson] had been threatened with a copyright lawsuit by Harlin Brothers of Indianapolis who had developed the Multi-Kord as early as 1933." She says they were "threatened with" a lawsuit, but if no suit was ever filed there's not going to be much of a paper trail to verify the veracity of the story, just anecdotes and "recollections".
She also says in the same paragraph that the Electraharp was designed by John Moore as stated above, and that Alvino Rey bought one of the first three produced. A couple of pages down though is a transcription of a letter from Alvino Rey, in which he says he was involved in the design of the Electraharp, but not until 1940, despite the patent application dating to 1939. So basically we don't really know the veracity of any of this info, the only real concrete sources are the patent records, which don't tell the actual story very accurately or thoroughly.
_________________ All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Ron Hogan
From: Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 3:03 pm
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Yddub Snomme was a pioneer. |
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Tom Sosbe
From: Rushville,In
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 6:02 pm !st pedal steel
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I had the privilege of doing an interview with Jay Harlen at his store in Indianapolis in the early to mid 1980's. I can't remember exactly but this is the story as jay told it. In 1940's the Harlen bros. had a music school in downtown Indy. and were touring as a Hawaiian band. Jay had designed and built his Hawaiian pedal steel between 1935-1939. The brothers were busy and had no interest in manufacturing the Multi-Kord. so Jay took it to Gibson to try and work out some kind of a licensing with Gibson to manufacture and market the Multi-Kord. He left it with Gibson to evaluate. A week or two later Gibson sent it back to Jay saying they didn't think it was worth their time. About a year later Gibson comes out with the Electro harp with the changer identical to the Multi-Kord. Can anyone say law suit? I cannot swear this is true. I wasn't there but that is the story told by Jay Harlen |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Apr 2022 7:01 pm
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A few more musings...
The Harlin patent that b0b referenced was not for Jay's original guitar, but for the smaller and cheaper commercial version which was produced starting in the late '40s, and sold in large quantities. I have no doubt that Jay did have his (personal guitar) prototype built by the mid 1930s, and this aligns with the entry in Lorene's book. Somewhere, I believe I have a picture of that guitar, and it was larger and had a pedal board across the front. I also seem to remember that it had more pedals than the commercial version.
Often, we hear arguments that the Multi-Kords could not be played like a modern pedal steel, and that the pedals were only good for changing tunings, and not for playing moving tones. Moving tones (just a few) were heard on some of Alvino's recordings as early as 1940 (more than likely on the Gibson Multiharp). But smooth moving tones were also possible on the Multi-Kords, and hopefully, this video should dispel that myth for good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA0PXTJ1UGE
>
There were also some other maker's designs in the mid 1930's, one in particular was patented by A.P. Freeman and M.P. Grauenhorst (submitted 1936, approved 1938). Their design was a rack with two pedals, upon which could be placed a lap steel (a "Frypan" is shown in the patent description) and linkages on the rack connected to the bridge and pulled a few strings. As far as I can discover, only two were built, and it never became a commercial product.
My interest in all this isn't a crusade to give credit to Jay, or discredit anyone else. I'm always open to new information discoveries, for no other reason than to get the history of the instrument right before it's lost to the annals of time. The open internet has a way of distorting things that happen. |
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J R Rose
From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2022 5:49 pm
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When was Chuck Wright's patent for the Serra Guitar given? Or maybe it was a Wright Pedal Steel Guitar? I saw something about it not long ago and it was way back their. J.R. Rose _________________ NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Apr 2022 7:14 pm
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As I recall the Wright pedal steel was patented just a couple of months after the Bigsby, in 1948. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2022 7:13 am
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My very first pedal steel was a Hise. I just now stumbled upon the patent for it. The heel-toe pedals were a cool idea, but the guitar was crap. Broke strings constantly, insane cabinet drop, couldn't stay in tune.
_________________ -πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dick Hitchcock
From: Wayne, Nebraska
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Posted 17 Apr 2022 8:19 am
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He may not be the first, but Doc Martin of the Ozark Jubilee days put pedals on Fenders for steel players!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4JRvO_UUI&t=9s _________________ Justice Pro Lite 4x5.... NV112.... Steel seat. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 17 Apr 2022 9:11 am
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Some thoughts and comments...
Seymour was known for "inventing facts" especially if he thought you knew little or nothing of the subject.
There was an Electradair at the Emmons estate sale. I saved the photos. It was gone by the time a friend arrived. Four photos. Showed the base and top but no legs. No photos of it assembled. Looked clean though. Did this come from Seymour?
In his "article" Seymour spelled it as ElectradairE and also ElectrOdairE. It's Electradaire. Made by Newton Adair in Fresno California. I own one in poor shape that is in storage there and will be shipped to me soon. The power cord is gone and I don't know if anything else on it still works. My tech is going to try to get it going again. He knows solenoids from working on tape recorders. I hope to document the whole redo on it. Electradairs were made in "some" quantity as there is a metal plate on it with patent and serial numbers, not a cheap thing to do for a "one-shot' item. Adair had a music store and teaching studio in Fresno for many years. His grandson Scott Adair still lives there, plays music, and has posted on the SGF before.
Freddy and Ernie Tavares both had pedal steel guitars with straight pedal racks at the same time or earlier than the Speedy West Bigsby. I've seen, and have somewhere, copies of dated newspaper articles made from library microfilm.
The Ruymer book has many errors and some wild guesses. There are also multiple photos of mine credited to someone else.
John Couisineau's name on the Hise patent...he is also named on the papers for the National Electra-Chord.
Bob...do you have the Bigsby, Marlen, and Sho-Bud tuning booklets for your research? I posted them here many years ago. Somebody recently reposted the Bigsby booklet.
Jay Harlin, and later one of his brothers, both told me in person that they were already making "changer guitars" in the 1930's "before the War" and "before Gibson".
Multi-Kords were still being made and sold into the 1970's. I have a Wexler (Chicago) wholesale/jobber catalog with Multi-Kords from 1975. An owner here bought his double neck eight string new in 1974.
MLA |
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