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Topic: Rickenbacker - Why no reissue for the Frying Pan ? |
Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2022 3:56 pm |
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| It would seem to be a no-brainier to reissue the Frying Pan since it has been out of production for over 50 years. Just about every guitar ever made has been reissued in the last few decades. Why no Frying Pan? There must be a reason. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 1 Apr 2022 4:46 pm
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| The same reason Fender and Gibson haven't reissued their classic steels: it's not worth the investment. They'd have to spend a lot on design and tooling just to sell a handful of instruments. There are enough people making frying pan replicas that the market's already covered. |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2022 8:07 am
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I just want them to reissue the pickup, or quit messing with people that do want to make it.
They could do it too, maybe commission Clinesmith to make them some bodies and they add their pickup and badge, it wouldn't be too hard and i bet folks would buy them, not a lot but they'd sell. Heck, they may even have the dies, maybe even the Bakelite molds, they made these guitars up into the '50s so its not like National where the dies were lost to the war effort. |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 2 Apr 2022 1:17 pm
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| Todd Clinesmith makes an amazing fry pan and Jason Lollar makes great horseshoe pickups in both sizes. |
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Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 7:28 am
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Yes the independent makers are doing a fine job on them.
Funny how these one man shops can tool up to build them but Rickenbacker can't?....Yeah right. This is their baby,it put Rickenbacker on the map,it was the first electric in production. Without it there would be no Rickenbacker.
At least Leo kept steels in production until the day he left Fender, even though sales were not good in the 60s.
Should Rickenbacker reissue them.....You bet they should. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 7:58 am
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| Chris Clem wrote: |
At least Leo kept steels in production until the day he left Fender, even though sales were not good in the 60s.
Should Rickenbacker reissue them.....You bet they should. |
The problem Fender Japan had when they re-issued the Stringmaster a few years back was that the price of a new one was actually more than you'd pay for a vintage one.
The reason Strats and Teles and Les Pauls or Gretsch 6120s are still good sellers is because a re-issue is considerably less than a 50's one but if they were the same price, who wouldn't prefer an original one?
What do you think Rickenbacker would charge for a re-issue of the Fry Pan?
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 3 Apr 2022 9:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 8:46 am
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| Chris Clem wrote: |
| Funny how these one man shops can tool up to build them but Rickenbacker can't?....Yeah right. |
No one said they can't make them anymore. They just can't sell enough to make them profitable. This is especially true for an aluminum instrument, where the basis has to be sourced from a casting house and then machined.
| Chris Clem wrote: |
| it was the first electric in production. |
It was Rickenbacker's first, but not the first electric guitar on the market. That was the Stromberg Electro of 1928-9.
| Chris Clem wrote: |
| At least Leo kept steels in production until the day he left Fender, even though sales were not good in the 60s. |
Fender kept selling steels for 15 years after Leo left. Clearly, they weren't on the point of unprofitability in 1965, or they'd have been dropped a lot earlier. |
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Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 8:49 am
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| Quote: |
| "What do you think Rickenbacker would charge for a re-issue of the Fry Pan?" |
That would be for them to figure out. Obviously they could sell them for much less the originals are going for. It is a pretty simple guitar to build and it not like like they are starting from scratch. They have a factory and employees who are quite capable of setting up to build them. They already make there own pickups. There are still casting foundries around.
It would be a boost to the employees to have something new/old to build and put the Rickenbacker name in the news. When you manufacturer products they don't always have to be big sellers,as long as you don't lose money and your employees have work. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 8:56 am
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| Chris Clem wrote: |
| Obviously they could sell them for much less the originals are going for. |
I don't see how that's remotely obvious, but I guess you've done a detailed cost analysis with quotes from their supply chain.
| Chris Clem wrote: |
| It is a pretty simple guitar to build |
| Chris Clem wrote: |
| and it not like like they are starting from scratch. |
At this point, they pretty much would be starting from scratch except for the pickup.
| Chris Clem wrote: |
| They have a factory and employees who are quite capable of setting up to build them. |
Again, . |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 10:16 am
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| I can't imagine that cost and logistics of construction would be advantageous to them economically. |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 11:40 am
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The way I see it, there are very few "Young" steel players coming along.....It is pretty much an old farts thing. If you don't think so, check out the profiles of the people that post frequently. Most are retired. Now, for Rick to tool up and get into production would be a big expense and a lot of time and effort for a handful of people that would like one. How many playable years do you think that handful of players have left? Then what does Rickenbacker do?? It's
all about the bottom line.........$$$$ Personally I think it would be a financial disater...........
BTW, I am in the old farts community. Just sayin
Also if any youngsters read this, didn't mean to step on any toes, and if you are young and play steel, KUDOS TO YOU!!!! 
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 Apr 2022 9:21 pm
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If the numbers added up, they’d probably do it. My best guess is that they can’t make the numbers add up for them.
In the realm of fun & fantasy… I could see a new model Frying Pan being produced using aluminum billets and a CNC milling machine, rather than setting up a big casting operation.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – G B D E G B D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 4 Apr 2022 4:37 am
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I've never gotten the idea that John Hall (I think thats his name) or the management at Rickenbacker was particularly interested in doing radical things like resurrecting the steel guitar line. They pivoted to Rock n Roll with the 60s (the Beatles had a thing or two to do with that) and seem to be happily staying there since; they are pretty conservative and even their website has barely changed in 20 years or so.
Getting tooled up to make a solid metal instrument would be a heavy investment as mentioned, and the supply/demand is what you might expect...speaking of lap steels in general, which skew heavily among the older player population...you have a lot of vintage instruments which are sadly coming into the market, along with a diminishing demand for them as younger players are rarer and more a niche interest for some of us (weirdos  ). After the 70s or so the "lap steel" player population seemed to either split off into regular guitar or country pedal steel and even Hawaiian music changed to where the steel had lost its place in the spotlight.
So we are in a spot where the players are much fewer in number, and their needs are pretty well met with a well-stocked vintage market and a number of boutique luthiers for those preferring new. It makes about as much sense for Rickenbacker to reissue steels as it would for Gibson to reissue their K-4 Mandocello. Although I admit it would be symbolically cool to see a frypan reissue, but Rickenbacker cares a lot less about symbolism than, well, profitability.
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Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 4 Apr 2022 7:25 am
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bottom line.........$$$$
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Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Apr 2022 6:00 am
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Rickenbacker made the decision a long time ago to not expand their operation. And in that time, there has been significantly more demand for their guitars than than they can handle. IMO, they are the only classic guitar company whose quality never really slipped, have not resorted to exporting their production overseas, and who still do things basically as they did them 50 years ago. And their business model is obviously working for them. So I can't see any compelling reason why they would want to, or reasonably could without impacting their basic business model, start up production of steel guitars again.
When I was running my guitar shop back in the 90s, I inquired about getting a Rickenbacker dealership. They told me they couldn't take on any more dealers - they were pretty much at capacity. I know several other guitar dealers with the same story. I believe it is still quite rare for a Ricky dealership to come up.
A couple of other things. Guys like Todd Clinesmith are already doing a great job building guitars for that general niche. What's missing? I guess the Bakelite guitars. But it's not as if there is any real paucity of original examples, nor are they going for stupid money. So I don't really see the incentive.
Finally - if they did get back into the steel guitar business, what would that do to the smaller builders that are doing so well now? I'm inclined to be careful what I wish for. |
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Joe Burke
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 7 Apr 2022 12:07 pm
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| Another vote for Clinesmith frypans! |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 7 Apr 2022 12:29 pm
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| IMO, they are the only classic guitar company whose quality never really slipped |
Going by the stories I have heard over many years (including from close friends) about the tendency of the "R" tailpieces to break and Rickenbacker's refusal to acknowledge that it is a design fault makes me doubt their level of quality (and customer service). Not sure I'd trust them to make a decent guitar out of solid metal any more. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 3:13 am
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| Jeff Mead wrote: |
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| IMO, they are the only classic guitar company whose quality never really slipped |
Going by the stories I have heard over many years (including from close friends) about the tendency of the "R" tailpieces to break and Rickenbacker's refusal to acknowledge that it is a design fault makes me doubt their level of quality (and customer service). Not sure I'd trust them to make a decent guitar out of solid metal any more. |
I have a multi-instrumentalist friend who is something of 'an expert' on stuff like Byrds, instruments, and Rics (or at the least he has written a lot on the subjects and is a really good player) and thru this I am familiar with the breaking tailpieces. His accounts even throw in the dirty words pot metal and the sheer frustration of dealing with the issue and dealing with the company.
Which is a sidetrack from the issue which is how quickly should the director of product development be fired for spending the money for tooling up to sell 17 steel guitars a year. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 4:29 am
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I've owned quite a lot of Rickenbacker guitars, and have lots of friends/colleagues who have also. And I would say that they are, if anything, built better than back in the 'golden era'. This is not to say that they are without issues. I think it is very likely true that the R tailpieces are, statistically, more likely to break than the old tailpiece. However, I don't personally know anyone who has had one break. And this is a very easy fix - e.g., https://www.winfieldvintage.com/product-page/r-to-trapeze-tailpiece-conversion-kit. Like many other Rick owners, I wish they'd drop the R tailpiece too. In fact, my 660 has the older style tailpiece., so they could certainly do that. I imagine it's an attempt to make some price-point product differentiation.
One of the big weak points of Rickenbackers, especially the 12-strings, is the truss rod system. On the old ones, if you didn't pre-tension/pre-straighten the neck before tightening the truss rod nut, you likely broke it. The new system is better but still not great. I can attest to this from personal experience - I have a 660/12 with a broken truss rod, which I need to get on one of these days. But you can just go in, unscrew the truss rod, pop in a new one, and done. I've done it before. But still, I think truss rods are the true weak spots on Ricks, but IMO better than they used to be.
Another pet peeve of many, including me, with Rick guitars - the narrow neck. I've owned several Ricks (360/12, 620/12, 330, etc.) guitars, dating back to the 70s, and sold every one in frustration. Not due to any issue with the overall build or sound, but the damned narrow neck. My 12-string is now a 660 (sequel to the limited-issue Tom Petty model of the 90s, which I also owned a couple of and wish I never traded away), and the neck is not narrow and feels fine.
I also never said that Rickenbacker was easy to deal with. They have a successful but limited-production business model, and they do things whatever way they want. So I agree that they are not very flexible. I do wish they were more open to suggestions. But the guitars are still, IMO, as good or better than the old days.
I stand by everything I said about steel guitar production. I'd be surprised if they ever start up steels again, and for good reason. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 4:29 am
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As great as they are, I don't like little round body. They look like electric banjos. 
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 4:55 am
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| David Matzenik wrote: |
| As great as they are, I don't like little round body. They look like electric banjos. |
What's your point? 
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 7:19 am
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I think I'll always kick myself for not buying an election Vega back when I had the chance...
On Topic:
I don't like the idea of Rick raising the frying pan. When National reissued the square neck tricone, people seemed to start relating the value of the older ones based on the cost of producing new ones. As a result, now old tricone cost an arm and a leg. I know prices will go up anyhow but why risk it? As others have said, there are already great copies available from independent luthiers.
EDIT:
I wrote that in a hurry, soaking authoritatively, but the truth is that in all really new to the steel. So that was just my impression based on thing others on this forum have alluded to. |
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Gilbert Lazar
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2022 7:38 am what’s the value
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| I have one considering for sale |
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