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Topic: Need help identifying vintage dobro FINISHED!! |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:15 am |
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Serial number is. 4894. Came in for repair/restoration in pieces with no fretboard. I have to make a new fretboard for it. I repitched the neck and glued it in. If someone can help me with a pic of what the instrument would have looked like originally, then I can make it look as close to the way it came from dobro when new, with the correct fretboard markers etc. vintage dobro info is sketchy at best. I can’t pin point the exact wood used for this model for the fretboard. It looks like it could be a model 25 or 27. Any info will be appreciated. I’m going to make a rosewood fretboard for it. I don’t think a simple model like this would have had an ebony board. Thanks!
Last edited by Bill Hatcher on 29 Mar 2022 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:16 am
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Sorry for the upside down pic.
The metal cover has a patent number and the words “other pats. pend.” Stamped on it. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:35 am
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My best guess is a M25. The M27 would not have had f-holes. Is there binding on the back?
When you say you glued the neck. Did that guitar not have a neck stick from the neck heel into the cavity?
At any rate, best guess is late 30's. I don't have my s/n book at hand.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:43 am
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| Yes there is binding on the back and there was no neck stick. As you can see in the pic, the neck set up is a dovetail joint. I know that the old national resonators have the neck stick set up, but this instrument did not have that. Thanks! |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:48 am
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OK..couldn't tell by the pic.
I'll assume ebony fret board btw.
h |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:53 am
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| There was a smaller-body Model 19 "Angelus" Dobro with f-holes, glued neck joint. I believe the "19" was a reference to the retail price of $19 in the 1930's. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 7:13 am
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| D Schubert wrote: |
| There was a smaller-body Model 19 "Angelus" Dobro with f-holes, glued neck joint. I believe the "19" was a reference to the retail price of $19 in the 1930's. |
Some info I found on the 19 was that it did not have the dobro decal on the head....the marking on the head said....angelus. A product of dobro. Was meant to be a very simple cost effective instrument. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 7:27 am
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I just quickly checked the Gruhn book and this might be one of those dobro mysteries (of which there are many).
This more closely resembles a M19, except for the bound back. I can't tell by the photo what the body shape is but the Chicago built M25 DOES have a bound back.
The Gruhn book says no 4,xxx series serial numbers, jumping from 3,xxx to 5,xxx.
That being said, if the patent number on the cover plate is 1896484 that would place it somewhere between 1933-39.
There you have it.
h |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 9:03 am
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ok. here are the serial numbers. the reason your gruhn book has no 4000 numbers is they were set aside for the regal/dobro collaboration. as the note says....some dobro made instruments that were not made by regal can have a 4000 type serial number. this instrument appears to one of those. it was made by dobro and not by regal, but carries the serial number in the 4000s as used by regal.
Year Serial Number
1929--------------------------------------- 800---1,400's
1930--------------------------------------- 1,400---2,000's
1931--------------------------------------- 2,000---2,600's
1932--------------------------------------- 2,600---3,200's
1933--------------------------------------- 3,200---3,900's *1
1933---------------------------------------.4,000---4,900's *2
1933--------------------------------------- 5,000---5,600's *3
1934 - 1936------------------------------ 5,700---7,600's *4
1936 - 1937-------------------------------8,000---9,000's *5
*1. 3,200's-3,900's
This series of numbers was used immediately prior to the licensing agreement with Regal and during this period business was hectic.
*2. 4,000's This entire set of numbers had been set aside for Regal, however don't be surprised to see a California built guitar show up with a number in the 4,000 series. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 9:07 am
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and here is some info on fretboard materials and neck inlay. very helpful. i chose rosewood and this info says that rosewood would have been one of the woods used in this era.
FRETBOARDS
Fretboards were made of red bean wood, Makkochuba, rosewood and ebony or ebonized wood, with the model and time period of manufacture determining the material used. Red bean was used on several early, California-built models, while Makkochuba was used only on one model, which was also built in California. By early 1930, both red bean and
Makkochuba were replaced by rosewood. Rosewood was used throughout the production years, with ebony or ebonized wood used on Model 45s and above and on all walnut models. Frets on both roundneck and squareneck models were traditionally raised; however, a very few squareneck models have been seen with flush frets.
Position markers were located as follows: single dots at the 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th, and 17th, frets; and double dots at the 15th and 19th frets. The most common markers were MOP, with a couple of different sizes commonly used. On early guitars (up until about 1930) there was no marker at the 17th fret. High-end walnut guitars can be found with either dots or ornamental position markers, the latter predominately diamond-shaped. The double 'markers covered four screw heads which held the fretboard securely to the ~top of the guitar. Fretboards on Model 37's and above were usually bound in white celluloid, with some binding inlaid with side markers. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2022 6:55 pm
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Fitting on a newly made 25” scale rosewood fretboard I just finished making. The intonation is going to be very nice.
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Brian Evans
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 22 Mar 2022 3:13 am
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| It is identical to my Model 25, from 1935/36. Dovetail joint, no internal stick or bracing, slot headstock. Single white binding front and back, F-holes. Mine has a 14th fret neck joint, single dots on 5th to 12th fret, no markers above the 12th fret on the extension, mystery wood fretboard (def. not rosewood, probably blackened maple or something else very fine grained). https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3399130320097645&set=g.1507833022578349 |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2022 3:41 pm
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Stew Mac has real nice pre slotted 25" maple fingerboards for a pretty good price, they also have the india ink to dye it black for a true restoration. I have personally used these things and was well satisfied.
I'll tell you why i think it had a "Ebonized" board, sometimes the ink just turned those boards to dust, like charcoal or petrified wood, ive seen this first hand on Dobro and other guitars from the period. Not much other reason i can think of why it has no board?? |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 22 Mar 2022 4:12 pm
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The photo below is from Steve Toth’s excellent book, Dobro Roots. Anyone with an interest in prewar Dobros should have this book.
This particular Model 25 was getting toward the end when production ceased just prior to the U.S. involvement in WWII.
It is a Regal-built, similar to the guitar in question but with a poinsettia coverplate. It doesn’t matter which decal is on the headstock. Bill, I assume there is no soundwell in the guitar you’re working on The lower priced models had f-holes and no soundwells.
When Regal started building in Chicago after reaching the agreement with the Dobro folks in Los Angeles, two fairly obvious changes occurred: the headstock slots were rounded rather than squared off, and the arrangement of the screws on the coverplate went from one at 12 o’clock facing the fretboard to a pair of screws facing the fretboard at 11 and 1 o’clock. Same deal at the tail of the guitar. By not having a screw at 6 o’clock, one can remove the coverplate and still leave the tailpiece in place.
The serial number business is all over the map. There were Regal Dobros that began with 4, then around 1936 there were Regal-builts with an “A” as a prefix, and many had no serial number at all. Fits right in with the expression many of us use in studying the subject: “the convoluted history of the Dobro guitar.”
Right off the fretboard in the photo looks like rosewood to me.
_________________
Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 22 Mar 2022 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 22 Mar 2022 4:17 pm
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| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
Stew Mac has real nice pre slotted 25" maple fingerboards for a pretty good price, they also have the india ink to dye it black for a true restoration. I have personally used these things and was well satisfied.
I'll tell you why i think it had a "Ebonized" board, sometimes the ink just turned those boards to dust, like charcoal or petrified wood, ive seen this first hand on Dobro and other guitars from the period. Not much other reason i can think of why it has no board?? |
In going through Steve Toth’s book, some of the fancier more expensive models appear to have blackish fretboards. The lower tier models like this 25 don’t.
_________________
Mark |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2022 9:14 pm
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| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
Stew Mac has real nice pre slotted 25" maple fingerboards for a pretty good price, they also have the india ink to dye it black for a true restoration. I have personally used these things and was well satisfied.
I'll tell you why i think it had a "Ebonized" board, sometimes the ink just turned those boards to dust, like charcoal or petrified wood, ive seen this first hand on Dobro and other guitars from the period. Not much other reason i can think of why it has no board?? |
i make all my own fretboards...any scale i need. i have a machinist 24" ruler and one edge is in 100ths of an inch. all i need is just the layout of the fret scale...mark em off and cut them with a radial saw i have set up with a fret slot blade.
there is white blushing all along the neck and the body. i can tell that some steam was used to steam the neck out and i assume steam was used on the neck. when the vintage guitar dealer bought it to me, the neck was off and the fretboard was gone. i looked up the woods used and found the first boards were something called "red bean" wood. never heard of that. several woods were called that, so its not for sure what that was. rosewood was used a lot, so i just used indian rosewood. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 23 Mar 2022 3:40 pm
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Bill, another photo from Steve Toth's book and a pretty clean example of a Model 55 (also known as the "Standard" at the time) California-built Dobro, circa 1930, serial #940. Sorry about the glare, quick iPhone photo, I wanted to share it here so you could get a look at the red bean fretboard. I don't think the red bean business was around for very long. The Dopyeras referred to the dark brown, nearly black stain as "walnut." No frills model lacking in binding on the body.
And below is a modern interpretation, but with a lot more "horsepower," the Beard Jerry Douglas Signature BlackBeard. I'm going off memory and paraphrasing Jerry, he has mentioned in the past that one of the earliest Dobros he owned was a Model 55, and he always liked the no frills body and the red bean fretboard.
He asked Paul Beard to build one with the Beard modern E Model shape out of solid mahogany to add to his signature series of guitars. Apparently Paul was initially hesitant because he felt with the plain-Jane looks it wouldn't sell very well in comparison to the more elaborate Douglas models.
This model comes standard with the Fishman Nashville pickup. An option is the Hipshot DoubleShot tuning changer tailpiece, and it has been Jerry's main road guitar over the past seven or eight years. And as it turns out, the BlackBeard has become one of Beard's best selling squareneck models. Partial photo below, the fretboard is bubinga.
_________________
Mark |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2022 7:51 pm
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
Stew Mac has real nice pre slotted 25" maple fingerboards for a pretty good price, they also have the india ink to dye it black for a true restoration. I have personally used these things and was well satisfied.
I'll tell you why i think it had a "Ebonized" board, sometimes the ink just turned those boards to dust, like charcoal or petrified wood, ive seen this first hand on Dobro and other guitars from the period. Not much other reason i can think of why it has no board?? |
i make all my own fretboards...any scale i need. i have a machinist 24" ruler and one edge is in 100ths of an inch. all i need is just the layout of the fret scale...mark em off and cut them with a radial saw i have set up with a fret slot blade.
there is white blushing all along the neck and the body. i can tell that some steam was used to steam the neck out and i assume steam was used on the neck. when the vintage guitar dealer bought it to me, the neck was off and the fretboard was gone. i looked up the woods used and found the first boards were something called "red bean" wood. never heard of that. several woods were called that, so its not for sure what that was. rosewood was used a lot, so i just used indian rosewood. |
Cool, Rosewood is beautiful, it will be just fine.
Are you planning on playing it regular or Hawaiian style? The reason i ask is that now might be a good time to add some reinforcing rods to it to keep it from bowing. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2022 4:33 am
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
Bill, another photo from Steve Toth's book and a pretty clean example of a Model 55 (also known as the "Standard" at the time) California-built Dobro, circa 1930, serial #940. Sorry about the glare, quick iPhone photo, I wanted to share it here so you could get a look at the red bean fretboard. I don't think the red bean business was around for very long. The Dopyeras referred to the dark brown, nearly black stain as "walnut." No frills model lacking in binding on the body.
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so that is the "red bean" wood. i looked it up and there are several woods that back in the day may have been that look. thanks for the info. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2022 4:36 am
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| Glenn Wilde wrote: |
Cool, Rosewood is beautiful, it will be just fine.
Are you planning on playing it regular or Hawaiian style? The reason i ask is that now might be a good time to add some reinforcing rods to it to keep it from bowing. |
i am restoring this for a vintage guitar shop here in atlanta. they asked that it be set up to play bottleneck/standard guitar. i thought about some rods, but this neck is pretty big and it was not warped at all. the nice thick rosewood board will be enough i believe. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2022 11:16 am
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Instrument is finished. Sounds great.
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2022 1:35 pm
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| Looks good. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 1 Apr 2022 1:47 pm
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Great job Bill!
_________________
Mark |
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Joe Elk
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2022 3:52 pm
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NICE WORK BILL
Joe Elk Central Ohio |
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