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Topic: Cabinet Drop |
Dan Neave
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 1:23 pm |
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Hi members,
Dans my name and I am a new member from Australia hope your all well!
Could I get some insight into cabinet drop and how this is taken into account for tuning my E9th PSG?
I have a background in jazz guitar and lapsteel playing and recently purchased a ZB custom PSG and want to fine tune its tuning in 440hz.
It has a single neck and 3 pedal and 5 levers if that helps.
Regards,
Dan |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 2:40 pm
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Here's a tutorial about E9 pedal steel I wrote for my students back 20 years ago when I taught.
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On E9th Pedal Steel>
Our open tuning is an E tuning with no pedals and a "A" tuning with pedals down.
We are so used to tuning to E 440 but the rest of the world is tuned to A 440.
So if you tune your guitar to E 440 and play an open A chord with pedals down; than you are out of tune with the rest of the world because your "A" note(chord) will be flat (Mainly because of the pull on the guitar when pushing pedals; will drop notes).
So since I and the rest of us are used to tuning to the E note on a Pedal steel guitar from the start; what I would suggest is to push "a" and "b" pedals down and while down; pick your "E" note(highest open "E") and tune it to 440 on your tuner. Now let off your pedals and play that "E" note again and look at where it now lays on your tuner(usually sharp to 440); and that is your "NEW" E note and go ahead and retune the rest of your guitar to that E note reference like your used to(and now with pedals down; your "A" note will be in tune to E440 because your pedals down "E" note is 440.
So the way it turns out for your particular guitar is how much difference there is in the way your guitar re-acts to the pedals pushed.
So now in all probability your open E reference is sharp to E 440; but your "A" chord is now tuned to "A" 440 and you will play in better tune than you ever have; if your not already doing this. It is ok to the ear to be slightly sharp.....but it is never ok to be flat. Sharp adds excitement; and Flat adds Death>to the music.
I alway tune my guitar by ear; as Tom Brumley once told me: "Ricky if you always practice on tuning your guitar by ear; than you are practicing on playing in tune and that is the goal here"!!!.
I do have the notes somewhat memorized where they lay on my tuner for my guitar, for the times that I don't get to make any noise at the gig or don't have time or can't hear. But finding out how your guitar tunes to "A" 440 is VERY important.
Another little practice thing I do at home when I ever practice; is I never practice with reverb and after tuning my steel; I will turn on my metronome that has a "A" 440 pitch to it; and I just warm up and play along with that "A" pitch going and you can play in key of A or E or D or C and I really listen to playing in tune with that pitch while I warm up or work on what ever.
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E9th Pedal steel tuning proceedure
First you tune your "A" note to 440 then with
pedals down tune your "E" note to that "A" 440
note. Now you have the new "E" note reference to
"A" 440.
Tuning the open tuning.
Tune the other E note(4and8)
Tune the G#'s (3and6)to E
Tune the B's (5and10)to E
Tune the F#'s (1and7)to B
Tune the D# to B(2nd string)
Tuning the pedals and knee levers
Tune the A pedal(5and10) to the E note
Tune the B pedal(3and6)to the E note("A"440)
Tune the C pedal(4and5)to the A note
Tune E lower knee(4and8)to the B note
Tune E raise knee(4and8) to the A pedal
Tune D note(9th string) to and "A" note
Tune D# lower 1/2 tone to 9th string
Tune D# lower whole tone to A pedal
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 2:50 pm
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This is it exactly and basically what I do also, although as Ricky said to learn to tune your guitar by ear. Something that was taught to me along time ago by Nashville players after I had been foolishly chasing numbers on a tuning meter. Different guitars have different cabinet
drop on the E's. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 4:13 pm
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Amen Kevin. I was lucky when I first started; my next-door neighbor was indeed Tom Brumley and that is mainly what we worked on totally; until he could bare listening to me....ha..lol; then we learned how to pick the hell out of the steel....he was NOT shy in being my musically aggressive Mentor. (Love and miss you Tom; RIP)
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 6:54 pm
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That's the logic I use too.
AB pedals down, tune the E string to the tuner.
Release pedals -- E string might shoot up on some guitars when cabinet drop is released. And wherever it lands on that particular guitar (around +3 on my guitars)... that slightly-sharp E-note is where I start when tuning the other strings in Open E position. That's how cabinet drop is "tuned out."
Looking at it in reverse, when drop comes into play when you go into pedals-down position, the E drops down a few cents and lands right where you want it... right in line with the B-pedaled "A" note at +0. Really, any guitar with some cabinet drop that's been tuned by ear will end up with the E string a little sharper than the "A" note. Meanwhile, on a guitar with no cabinet drop, both notes would be the same at +0.
If you tune the thirds of that E chord (strings 3 and 6) by ear, if you compare to the tuner it will display as flat (physics says 14 cents flatter than wherever the E string is set), but they're in tune per what the ear wants to hear! You're right and the system the tuner uses is just necessarily sharp (required by fixed-pitch instruments like 6-strings, but not required by PSGs). Welcome to the wonderful world of Just Intonation (JI). This is how harmony singers, horns, and strings tune their intervals.
The A note (B-pedal down) is also tuned to +0 on the tuner. Then the C# (A-pedal) is tuned against that note by ear. Since that interval is a major third, as always, it will display as flat on the meter when your ear tells you it's "pure." Same as the situation above... this is fine and the way most PSGs are tuned, whether by ear or by some canned chart or system like the Newman/Peterson settings. It's all trying to do the same kind of thing.
That's the core of it and the tuning of the rest of the changes are dictated by how they sound against what's already been set in stone above.
Last edited by Tucker Jackson on 3 Mar 2022 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 7:01 pm
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Right On Tucker; great explanation.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 7:51 pm
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I tune my Es 440 the rest is by ear. As far as cabinet drop it will usually effect the 5th string. My advice is don't worry about it. The more you play the more you'll learn to compensate for it.
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Last edited by Bill Dobkins on 4 Mar 2022 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan Neave
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 11:25 pm
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| Thanks guys that's exactly what I needed. Much appreciated! |
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