Tone or Options?

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

What matters more to you as a player........the tone of the guitar or the number of pedals and levers? Would you rather have a 3+3 that sounds like a dream or an 8+8 that doesn't sound great but gives you endless possibilities?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

My brain won't accept more than 5+5.

I don't see any reason to sacrifice tone. There are lots of great sounding guitars out there that can be loaded up with pedals and levers.

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I think the 'tone' is great on all the guitars, its our hands that are letting us down. I play student guitars a lot, they sound just as good as pro models to me, I am convinced that its how you go about getting the tone you want.

Ernie

------------------

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Tone. I just got a maple body MSA, and I'm thrilled that I made the decision based on tone. If I ever get all you can out of 3x4, I'll be amazed.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Tone. Period. gadgetry is great, but useless if your sound sucks. Tone is a big issue with steels for a former guitar player like me - most steels are weirdly limited; no tone or volume controls (a volume pedal does not work the same as a volume circuit on a guitar, and amp tone contrrols are completely different sound-shaping tools than a guitar tone control) and single pickups. I have never understood that theory. My Fender 400 had volme and tone controls, which make a huge difference in avaialable sounds -I added a second pickup, which really opened it up to a full range of tones.

Why the normal instrument is so limited is bizarre to me. Maybe the builders are much more interested in great mechanics, and leave tone up to whoever makes their pickups.

Barry Blackwood · Posted 3 Oct 2006 7:01 am

Another vote for tone.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Does adding more pedals and knee levers make the tone worse? I don't think so. On the other hand, my best sounding guitar is a lap steel.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

It depends on degree I guess. If you mean an 8+8 that actually sounds bad, then the 3+3. If you mean an 8+8 that sounds merely good, rather than great, I would definitely take the 8+8. This is assuming that both situations are as good as can be, and neither can be improved on.

------------------
[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I think I should have thought my question through a little more. How about this (you do not have the option of adding pedals or levers): You're on the road and are forced to rent a steel for a show. There's a really nice one there with awesome tone that has only 3+3. Next to it is an average steel with an array of pedal and levers. You cannot change out the pickups or anything. which one would you choose to take on the gig? I know a lot of the tone is in the hands, but some steels have better tone than others, as we all know.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Tone is king. When you're in the studio nobody cares how many pedals or levers it has, how light it is or how easy it plays.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I probably wouldn't use more than 3+3 on a rented steel anyway. I'd take one that sounded best.

David Collins · From: Madison, North Carolina, USA

My old Emmons PP is a D10 with 8&4. I can play everything that I need or want to with that setup, and still only use 3 pedals and on most occasions, only use 3 of the 4 levers.

All of my C6th playing is NO PEDALS, and I like it.

TONE TO DYE FOR!

My other steel is an old Marlen, single finger / pull-release changer, 8 pedals, NO levers. There is no lowers on the E9th neck AT ALL!
I can still make some very pretty music on it, and the TONE IS UNBELIEVABLE!

I'll take tone any day.

------------------
David Collins
www.alpinesoap.com

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

I once asked Sneaky Pete a few questions about steel guitars,He then asked me if I liked the sound of the steel that I was playing,and I told him that it was a great sounding guitar...He also said that all steels had their little "mechanical"weirdness so stick with the one that sounds the best to you,and learn how to work around the weirdness.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

That's cool, Stu. I like that tidbit of Sneaky Pete wisdom.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Chris, no offense, please...

But I can't believe your question! You have demonstrated great knowledge and insight in the past, and your quantitative question here , just shocked me.

I don't believe the number of knees or pedals you have on your guitar has any effect on the guitar's tone.

The axe is what it is; and adding a couple of insignificant knees or pedals really wouldn't re-shape the guitars overall tone, IMHO. (unless you added quite a bit of weight with those knees & pedals. Hard to concieve.

While we're on the subject, I'm from the school of LESS is MORE. Think Lloyd Green.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Actually, "feel" is more important to me than either tone or options on a decent guitar.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I think this question is not valid.

The question as it stands, compares a single neck (3+3) w/ a double neck (8+ Cool

. For me, sacrificing the C6th neck would never be an option.

A more relevent question would be the choice between a D-10 (or U-12) 8+4 w/ killer tone vs. one w/ set up w/ 8+8 that has so-so tone.

Tone trumps everything.....the 8+4 would win every time....(even if it weighed twice as much)

[This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 03 October 2006 at 08:33 PM.]

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Ernie -- Brave comment, and I'm inclined to agree.

Bobby: Me, too -- I've still not gotten the tone from my pedals steels I get from some of my laps.

Al

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I guess I agree with Ernie (and Sneaky Pete?). A majority of modern steel guitars pump out plenty of bass, mid and treble tones, and proper EQ for the way you play has mostly to do with what frequencies you cut to get it to match your preferences. Likewise, with a little attention to equipment and technique most steels have more than enough sustain to play any type of music you can imagine, so I'd pick the versatile one. If you're playing a reasonably modern, semi-well-maintained steel through a somewhat-decent amp and it "sounds like crap", well....

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Chip,

You shock me at how you could possibly misunderstand my question. I didn't say that more levers and pedals affect a guitar's tone. Don't be so quick to jump. I don't want to name brands, but sometimes a fully-loaded "whatever" cannot match a 3+2 "whatever" in the tone department. I stated that if you had a choice between tone and options (in a hypothetical situation) what would you choose, as in my scenario about choosing a rental for the evening.

Maybe it is a convoluted question...........I didn't think so, but in either case let's close the thread. Sometimes it's not worth the aggravation. You did this to me in a Dixie Chicks thread a while back, Chip. Do you have anything better to do than to try and shut people down around here? I don't understand what your problem is.

Thanks to those who understood the question.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Yeah, I didn't think the question had anything to do with the amount of gadgetry affecting tone - just whther tone of sheer number of changer "stuff" was more inportant.

And I don't think the number of pedas/levers hurts tone - however, I don't agre with my buddy David that any guitar with good sustain can be used for any kind of music. there's a LOT more to tone than sustain or a full balanced range - sometimes you don't WANT a full range and want to kick the treble, or KILL the treble, or roll off the volume, which affects how the pickups react...

There a lot of tonal options simply not available on most steels, unless you play one kind of music or different styles, but with one basic sound.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Good question, Chris. For me, Tone is 95% of it. But I have to have enough "guts" under the hood to do something WITH that tone. As my skill level increases, I will probably add some more changes to accomodate where I'm heading. On my Blonde bud, I doubt it will hurt the tone at all.

Tone is what drives me to play. The tone of the steel guitar of the 60's and 70's is what drew me to steel guitar. I have also heard songs recorded and released that the tone of the steel in that particular song, left much to be desired. But that is variety, and that's like everything else. Everyone wears shoes. But the styles/colors are all different. But everyone still has shoes.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Many players feel that the old Emmons PP's have there favorite tone but they currently play modern guitars because of the mechanics.

------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

David Doggett · Posted 4 Oct 2006 6:57 am

I don’t think renting for a single gig is a good test. I might decide to limp through a single gig with a less than optimum copedant but great tone, rather than a fully loaded rig and poor tone. But in terms of ownership for the long run, I am interested in exploring copedant changes and different kinds of music. If for say, financial reasons I was looking at used pedal steels (and couldn’t afford any upgrades later), and one had great tone but a minimal and difficult to change copedant (say an old Sho-Bud Permanent), and the other had sub par but acceptable tone and a fully loaded and easily changeable copedant (something like a Carter or GFI, but with a little worse tone – not that these actually do have worse tone), then I would buy the fully loaded rig. Great tone won’t help if I can’t get the notes I want. Sub par but acceptable tone, I can work with my hands, volume pedal and amp. But of course, if the tone is really unacceptable, then the deal is off. And someone only interested in playing classic country with no copedant experimentation might make the opposite decision and go with a sub par but acceptable copedant with great tone.

P.S.: Bob is exactly right. I have an Emmons p/p S12U 3&4 collecting dust; I actually play my Zum S12U 8&5. Of course, Truetone pup on a Zum is not so shabby for tone.

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 04 October 2006 at 08:03 AM.]

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Jeez, David, I wish I could have gotten you to clarify my question for me before I posted it. You answered perfectly the question I was trying to ask. Thank you.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic