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Topic: Approaching a new tuning |
Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 6:26 am |
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I'm curious how other people do this. I have developed my own approach, which is to learn as many basic chord movements as I can. I've been using this app https://www.steelrailguitars.com/fretboard2.html and I think I'd be pretty lost without it. I print off sheets and basically just draw the bar on the graph and circle the notes I'm hitting. I'm focusing on basic chords with few embellishments( I-IV, I-ii, ii-V7) etc. I tend to just noodle around till I find something and then just map it out on the graph. I haven't figured out a good method for learning scales and it looks pretty daunting, especially moving up and down the fretboard. The nice thing about E13 is, scale wise, you have everything nearby under the bar for playing in the root position.
Something I'm noticing (which I'm very excited about!) is how many different ideas in general, about music, this is opening me up to. I'm learning so many things that were right in front of me for years that I haven't seen in my regular guitar playing. This was my main reason for diving into this instrument and it seems to be paying off  |
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Daniel Baston
From:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 9:23 am
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| What I like to do is to learn a song or solo by ear that is in the new tuning and then figure out what the basic chord progression of the song is. Then do the same experimentation that you are doing with chord movements, but I find it seems to work faster and be more fun to work with lines and movements that inspire me (since I will have just learned them from a song that I like). Then try those same movements in a few other keys and you will be well on your way to being comfortable in the new tuning. Especially once you have learned a few songs/solos/intros etc this way. Let the songs be your teacher. In my experience, this will develop your ear in surprising ways too! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 10:09 am
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| Quote: |
| Let the songs be your teacher. |
This will hopefully be my next step! I'm still just trying to get a handle on the extreme basics, so maybe I'll start trying some basic folky type melodies and add a few harmonizing notes. Transposing them to other keys always a good idea!! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 11:14 am
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Tim, one of the things I find of value in jumping from tuning to tuning (though I really don’t do that anymore), is to focus on the things that are in common with other tunings, specifically triads (major and minor). Most tunings have a straight up 1-3-5 triad built right in. If I start from within the triad, I can build outward to the adjacent strings. I mean, harmony is harmony and scales are scales, so the information is useful in helping to bridge the gaps. The other thing most important to me is the intervals between the strings. I analyze all the combinations.
This is just to avoid falling into the trap of letting the tuning play me. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 7:01 am
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| Quote: |
| focus on the things that are in common with other tunings |
Thanks for the response Mike! This is great advice. In the Morrell E13, low to hi (G#-B-C#-E) cross over. I have been using the little bit I learned in C6 and A6, playing a few licks and such on these strings. The strings G# and B have the dobro intervals moving up and down the neck, which is familiar to most people who listen to bluegrass. The Morrell tuning has 2 built in minor triads. The C# minor triad was the obvious one and the B minor triad was the one I found by accident. I also found that by superimposing these triads you can get 9th and Major 7th chords and who knows what else. So many cool little discoveries happening! I realize this is all probably old hat for more experienced musicians.
| Quote: |
| The other thing most important to me is the intervals between the strings. I analyze all the combinations. |
Playing steel is opening up a whole new way of thinking about music for me, mostly out of necessity and the built in limitations of the instrument. I have to credit several of your insightful videos for some of these little breakthroughs I have had. Specifically this one where you seem to expand on that thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHBnWtlDbGs Another thing I have to credit you for is bringing my attention to tetrachords. I'm feeling positive that a deeper study of these ideas will lead to many, many more discoveries. Thanks for being such positive influence on the steel community! |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2022 7:27 am
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| what mike n said.... |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 6:42 am
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| Quote: |
| See the latest post on E13 |
Thanks Stefan, the site is coming along nicely! I'm very thankful (and need) all the help I can get.
Well I spent the morning brushing up on intervals 101 and I have to say, this is a an area I have neglected. Not any more!
Here is a nice breakdown from a popular jazz guitar site https://www.jazz-guitar-licks.com/blog/music-theory/list-of-intervals-music-theory.html
I remember when I first learned about the idea of breaking down chords into their function within a song and naming them with Roman numerals, this really simplified what seemed to be a very vast and confusing subject. This idea of thinking of chords and tunings and even scales as just different stacks intervals, it seems can be used in the same way. This could also be combined with the idea of using tetrachords instead of full scales. https://hellomusictheory.com/learn/tetrachords/
Man I got some work to do! I think the light just went on! Better late than never...  |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 3 Mar 2022 11:33 am
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When changing tunings, think about what changes and what relationships stay the same. Example Open D and DADGAD. The only difference is the 3rd string moves from F#, up 1/2 step to G. Everything you played on strings 1-2 and 4-6 is the same. You just need to address how the G note now relates to the other strings. Thinking of tunings in intervals is a helpful tool.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2022 10:12 am
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| Quote: |
| When changing tunings, think about what changes and what relationships stay the same. |
This is definitely useful approach. I have been thinking of the tuning as very similar to (low to hi) G-Bb-C-E-G-A-C-E. Most of the same stuff can be played if you skip the 9th. The slants don't work quite the same. I actually think I might like a C13 version better than the E13. I trend towards downtuning the standard guitar to C or B usually. How about G-Bb-C-D-E-G-A-C-D-E. Or even A13. It's all the same intervals. For now I'll keep digging the high lonesome E13 |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2022 10:17 am
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I found this thread and it is really re-enforcing my choice on tuning. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=341859&sid=97751a6067b5a9511a74c6b52f21f0d4
Since the topic of Buddy Emmons came up, here is another cool site I keep stumbling onto. Its pedal steel obviously, but still useful here I would think. http://www.buddyemmons.com/tab_from_buddy.htm
While I hopefully still have some peoples attention here, I have another question. Maybe this should be a separate thread? This has probably been discussed a million times, but what does "playing int the pockets" mean?? I'm almost ashamed so many steelers are doing this 
Where are these "pockets"? How does one get into them?? And more importantly how do you get out! |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 6 Mar 2022 1:04 pm
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Hey Tim
Detuning your E13 may be nicer if you have only 8 strings. With 12 I keep mine there as I have lower notes.
From my understanding Buddy's pockets are as follows so far from what I can see in the Steel Guitar article
- Intervals of Chords as an anchor point and then any notes around them at blinding speed but always landing on them to emphasise the current chord or melody during a solo.
Which is why he stresses knowing the Root, 3rd, b3, 7th, 9th tones are and all the rest is just boxes of notes around those chord tones to hit at blinding speed.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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